Does it just cost too much to be worth it? I can understand why hotwiring is so much quicker and precision made, but why not something molded like a clark blank but with eps? Couldn’t there be smaller beads on the deck side and larger ones near the bottom creating denser foam towards the deck, and then use less glass and make a lighter board?
Hotwirecutting with a CNC machine is like a infinite number of molds. Why do they have molds for the clarkfoam blanks in the first place?
regards,
Håvard
with polyurethane foam its a liquid mix, once its mixed, it expands into a huge chunk of foam. Way back when they finally began to experiement with it the foam block wasn’t good enough, like it fell apart or you’d make a board and glass it but the foam would keep expanding later etc . . . They decided to use a mold, but the foam would blow out molds. When they finally figured it out (Dave Sweet was the guy that did it) it was concrete molds and certain process . . . then the pu foam was beach ready as best as it could be.
http://www.davesweetsurfboards.com/SurfShop.htm for info on how he figured it out . .
Clark uses the same technique . . . it’s funny, according to Dave Sweet, he used styrofoam and epoxy when experimenting with foam. And now it seems that epoxy and EPS is the way to go . . . well depending who you ask.
Deathfrog…
The idea of molding EPS has been considered and may come to frushion. The idea of variable density in the mold is another issue. When EPS foam is made, the process requires steam to be distributed evenly through the tool containing the foam beads which creates even density throughout the foam. This helps create ductal strength and compression throughout the foam, rather that various densities and non-uniform strength patterns.
The density is determined by how tightly the beads are compressed into a given area and not necessarily by the size of the beads. For instance if you take a 1 cubic foot of space and compress a given number of beads into the cube to create 1 lb density foam, they then take twice the number of beads and compress into the same cubic area, and create 2 lb density foam and so on…
Building tooling to make EPS foam blanks is also expensive, and to make a variety of shapes would require a large capital investment. Clark normally only adds one or two new shapes per year. Your idea is not a bad one, but would have its challenges
Regards…
Ken
it’s already available http://www.surflight.com/eps.html
Oneula has made a bunch of them I have made a few. The foam shapes easier than I ever expected. Can buy with or without stringer.
Top pros are using that same reshaped blank in the 6 + footish range weighing in at 4 lbs epoxy sanded finish board. I think Oneula said the mold cost $10K to make. Be patient. Some day the choice and availability will be that of any pu foam maker. In the meantime, get the wire cutter out.
Go ask Jim Richardson(JR) and Jeff Johnston(JJ) at Surflight Hawaii
That’s where i get mine…
If Ken/Greg or Sfoam had blanks available here at a reasonable price I’d go that route too, but right now the Surflight blanks are the only game in town. 1.8 and 1.4 lb densities with or without stringers. If you buy the stringerless ones you can change the rocker when you glue-in your stringer. The best part especially for Jeff is that they are CNC machineable which is a big plus for production guys like Jeff and Eric who make boards for the pros… CMP said they plane better than the regular EPS stuff he’d seen…i,e, no gouging
The problem is the startup cost.
JR and JJ said the production cost to cast a steel mold is around $15,000-$20,000 which ain’t chump change for anyone especially a start up operation. That’s a lot of boards to make or glass to offset the cost of a new venture. So right now they only have one design, a 7’6" Jeff Johnston funboard design copied by most everyone on town. They can be easily reshaped into anything smaller or just cleaned up if you like Jeff’s shape. Right they are playing around with foam densities, JJ likes 1.5lb versus the other two (1.8/1.4). Sold out for now from what I hear.
The next mold will most like by to support the typical pro 6’2" they are making for AI and the rest of the boys… I believe you’ll see more styro/epoxies this season than ever before but no one will admit it…
Jeff is also working with AVISO which is a competitor to KOLSTOFF.
They are well over $1000 a board but well worth it according to Jeff and other’s who’ve tried them here where they’ve been severely tested and purposely broken on the Northshore over the past couple seasons…
I also hear that Laminations Hawaii (The T&C factory) will be using and distributing XTR blanks in Hawaii and I also hear they’ve build out a good section of the factory to support major epoxy operations.
Finally, SFO (Surfboard Factory Outlet) imports the “Zee” chinese boards from Taiwan for HIC and other local shops under the logo Island Creations is now bringing in stringered styro epoxy boards now… Saw a 10’4" Island Creations epoxy at HIC for $450.00 with no lable indicating “imported” on the boards anymore. Tap on the skin and it has that classic stryro-epoxy twang. I also saw a Zee 3"x21"x5’10" Quad fish at the factory last week classic concave deck and double barrel bottom too. You could pick it up with two fingers.
Things are changing fast.
So I anticipate molded blanks from taiwan/thailand might not be too far off in the future. Someone out there with the money is already thinking about it. Why make the boards when you can just sell the raw materials…
Right Mr. Swaylurker?
One would have to assume that is the way Tuflite go. Precission moulded blanks. Can’t imagin them shaping every board out of a block.platty.
already being done in oz too. know of at least 2 sources… but not available to the general market
Danfoam of Carlsbad has 2 molded EPS blanks, a 6’10" and a 9’6", but the plugs suck. The shorter one is 3-3/4" thick and the 9’6" is the same or thicker, both have way too much V in the bottoms. The cost of molds were $35,000.00 each, from tooled aluminum, with a gazillion steam vents. The foam comes out thoroughly bonded, but the cost of me doing better plugs for them is out of the question until the recoup the initial investment. For myself. I’m a shaper and the extra thickness is only a minor inconvienance, not a major obsticle to getting a really strong board
What about heat molding sheet EPS? EPS is a thermoplastic unlike polyurethane, so it gets soft when heated to a certain temperature. So it might be possible to compression mold a sheet with a little heat. You’d end up with more density at the nose and tail, however. A heated, adjustable rocker, platen style mold could squish the sheet EPS into the desired profile.
Has anyone tried it?
it makes more sense to me to shape the foam flat on a overhead cnc router with a vacuum holding table and locators. get it perfecct and then bend in the rocker when applying the first skin.
molding eps is a waste of money and time.
cnc you can do as many different thicknesses and outlines as you can imagine witout any added cost
thats how id consider if i was gunna go production
This is a catch 22, yes it can be formed with heat but the damn stuff is what we make INSULATED coolers with and it is hard as hell to get the heat to penetrate through it completely because of its insulative properties.
I had dented my first blank from this system, I took the heat gun to take out the dent, it came out for a second, then collapsed before my eyes. Heat can be good or bad, bad for EPS at too high a temp