Why Not ?

Here goes…something ?

Last week,I was approached by a large pop-out surfboard mfg…The company is based here in the USA and the surfys are built offshore.

This…company,asked if I would like to have several of my designs/models made by their company in exchange for $$$$$$$$.

The agreement would of course be put down in writing and noted before it became binding…but all the legals aside.

In this verbal exchange of words the company asked 1) I would only make surfboards on a very limited basis(12 a year),that’s easy enough !! 2)Terminate all or any activities on the internet dealing w/ surfing/surfboards and the construction of said items,eg. Swaylocks,Harbour,Surfline,etc. .The only media or interaction that involved these activites will be handed down to me from corp…Now this didnot include lurking,infact,they encouraged that 100%, as long as I didnot interact.

…it gets better…

The company in return for my loyalty,will compensate me for my actions or lack of them by blitzing and glitzing me and my designs , in ads/articles/motion media and Television.Being a former professional actor this fits right in there pockets.Throw in a few top up and coming pros on my boards… blitz it …and BOOM !!! you got bank,baby $$$$$$$$$$$$$

This is no light wt. deal…here,they plan on going red for up to three years before turning it around into $$$$$$$$$ with enough capitol to seemingly kill off the rest of the surfboard industry …so the picture was painted to me.

I will also supply them w/ current info. as to the whats and wheres as I find and / or receive them.

…Actually, it’s kind of fitting for someone who uses a cattledog for his logo…

…Just another dog ?..

…or a dog day afternoon ? …

You tell me…is it selling out ?

…What would you do if this was you ?

In all honesty…it would depend on what other sources of income I had going at the time. If I was busting my butt for pennies, something like this would be pretty darn attractive. But if I was comfortable already, not too many hours, some diversity & security built in, time off to be with family & surf…I’d probably pass.

It’s probably a harder decision than most of us would like to admit.

Tough one.


if you decide its worth a try, dont sign anything w/o consulting with a good attorney. Board certified preferrably…labor and employment contract specialist, with commercial litigation experience. Trust me, its worth the bucks…a good attny can review/advise you in a paid one hour consult…~$300.

Cheap insurance policy to protect your interests.


Define ‘selling out’. I imagine there are many inventors that dream of having their ideas bought by companies, or to be paid royalties for them, even if the ideas/products are never used/produced (hush money, happens all the time in the tech sector). Does this mean they sell out? I imagine there are tons of talented, not-so-well-known musicians who would give their right arms for a deal with a big record label, but whose fans would accuse them of ‘selling out’ if they signed. Does this mean they shouldn’t? Should they just make their fans happy because they want to remain fans of a good, but unknown band?

A lot depends on whether or not you can deal with the terms that are/will be offered. I agree that competent legal advice before you do anything is of paramount importance.

One person’s ‘sellout’ is another person’s ‘success’.


Personally, I don’t begrudge a guy for trying to earn a living. The way I see it, most accomplished craftsmen have been paying their dues for a long time and probably spent a lot of that time coming out on the short end of the deal for the love of what they’re involved in.

Not that you should care what I think, but I would never hold it against you which ever way you go. Only you know your situation with regard to cash, philosophy, freedom of expression, etc. All of us opinion generators online have little stake in what you decide, and little real comprehension of what the decision really means to you.

Remember, they want you and everything is negotiable. IF you are interested, maybe you can negotiate a deal that is more comfortable and still allows you to express yourself or build as you like. A little less cash for a little more freedom, that sort of thing. Who knows, maybe you like the deal as it sits.

You’re the man Herb. You’ve earned the right to decide whatever you want.


You tell me…is it selling out ?

…What would you do if this was you ?

Heh heh heh heh heh…Herb you do know how to throw gasoline on the fires…this situation you’ve described is just too good to be true…which of course doesn’t mean that it isn’t true…just too good…

First let me comment on the terms of the deal as outlined. Since they don’t seem as interested in developing and drawing out the best you have to offer, but really only a limited input from you with maximal use of your name, you would have to ask what it is they are really paying for. Are they buying the use of your name, or buying your name? If they buy your name (an outrageous sacrilege in some cultures) and your thought output, are they buying You? Is that their real intention? What happens if the company craps out and they still hold the rights to your name? It’s happened before…will they auction off the rights to your name to the highest bidder as part of liquidating their assets?

There is a difference between using your name as an endorsement and selling your name as a label.

The more interesting aspect is just what defines “selling out”. We’ve tossed that phrase around a lot but never really laid out definitions (there can be more than one). There is selling out a business, as in selling everything about all or a part of a business “lock stock and barrel”, or selling out all your holdings, like property in an area. The usual use of “selling out” in recent threads and certainly in conjunction with handcrafters going with mass production houses has a very negative connotation…as in selling out the confidence of others or ones personal beliefs. Doing something one is uncomfortable with for money…and while everyone is in the peanut gallery at one time or another, when the deal is on the table really only the person involved can make the call. And sometimes find out later on he or she was wrong, or right…

If it was me, I’d point my sawed-off at them and say “Who’s yer Huckleberry?”

Howzit Herb,Correct me if I’m wrong but it sounds like if you sign with them you won’t be able to board talk here on Sways. We’ll miss you if that’s part of the deal.Aloha,Kokua

I’ve got a friend you may want to speak to about how this kind of deal can affect your life…He goes by the name “Y” now.

the look on dora’s face…

whaaaaaay back he looked like he had the whole hole thing

in the palm of his hand…

they let him write the copy

‘‘they’’ was a gull name bull the bull

a goooooddd friend and consumate salesman

hr sold it to dora

look art the pitures

counter cultch yeah doggie

the frozen vegatable revolutionaries

and their abhorant vacuous quest for idents

gobbled down the black boards,made from reject in house blanks


in his hand


and the world slowly turned

and every dora piece was edited

and slowly the signs were aparent


THE DORA was morphing

lay down with dogs …

not yer owm om om om dog

clean smelling of the same soap that yo bathe with

in the tall gress on a summer afternoon

watch him piss at a tree and scratch defiantly at the mark of a panther

my dog

hey dog lets go surfin…

then that one where dora was doing the crucifix

that was the sign dora got wise

got wise got wise…

mebe this time

a koo LAWYER will save he white whale from the boatload of crew divined

by the maddd captain ahab

captains of industry interchanged faster than winchester parts…

world industry domination


fat old kooks whanna dominate the lineup

buy a couple figureheads and make em take you surfing

then the hot guys would give you a wave…

morph on ol ranger

Clayton moore was denied access to the mask and hat and silver bullet

the lone ranger was ten other guys

the corperate interests were


they were the BEAR

they cold cocked the hired hand and sued 'im to boot

fast forward the wandering monk

exiled in eurp

and post aparthied land

reduced to scmming

wasn’t the DA CAT A SCAM

AND the limited edition too/

god bless em all…

let me print my retraction right now so I ccan maintain some immunity

the DA CAT MODEL was a nobel experiment

and it was not an advertizing scam/signed ambrose M curry III

flip side

take the money all of it

run the part

stand in front of the mike

put the clause in the contract

for the expose

book rights

be a spy and take em to the

bank and transfer the funds

innrcity kid makes good

yacht club snotty as elitists eat dust

get a road warrior custom from barris and drive the team to

scorps and bum out the sunvalley you missed it club of

retired and trustafarians and gun runners and investor children of deceased

gay bar owners bar owners

they are all there

hell you can change avitars and writing style

and post here anyway

maybe you can get fired…

the contract got sold to punk ass suit goons

Prince bailed

couldn’t use his own name for how many years?

Pee Wee staged a bust to ditch Mac Donalds

they wanted him to be another ham burgler

Halston died and had to pay to use his name on the gravestone?

Make it in the big time

the jealous guys will will wait to hate some incosequential


the supporters will be silently hoping for the best.

the wanna bees will be trapsing your footprints

the ass kissers will be walking along side

in hopes of meeting stobrion dorertie

Paris hilton will hire you for a photo shoot

for her hand bags made from bull sacks.

American express will get you on the obscure celeb ad camp…



simmons died two weeks before

general dynamics was to launch their surfboard division.

what a time to live


if you cant beat em join em?

or beat em off?

and take their money

call em kooks

and drop in on em


2 hours. His post to your post.

Nice post.

You are fast.

it took me an hour to write it.



posted 1 hr after I read the 10:57 post

go fig a

Why not? Well, since you asked, and based on the limited info I have, this is all I could come up with:

  1. They’ll make you stop posting here at Sways, which you seem to like.

  2. They’re telling you to stop helping people build surfboards by giving them advice and insights from your own experience, which, to my mind, sounds Evil. They’re telling you you’ll have to stop helping people. Just listen to that. What kind of entity would tell you to stop helping people? Do you really want to be involved with such an entity? That, btw, is why it’s called “selling out”… Sorry about the dose of reality here, but you did ask…

“Now this did not include lurking, infact,they encouraged that 100%, as long as I did not interact.” Lurk, in case you find a nugget of value which you can take, but don’t interact, because only through interaction can you give. Take, but never give. This is good life advice for all you children out there.

  1. “The only media or interaction that involved these activites will be handed down to me from corp.” The language alone here is terrifying. “Handed down” to you? So you’re beneath them? If they use language like this to you, what do you think their opinion of you really is?

And the only interaction you’re allowed to have with the surfing internet is what you’re told to have? Yikes. So they’re going to be pulling your strings like a marionette, and you’ll dance to their corporate tune. Not much of an appealing nature in that picture, IMHO.

Other than that, I’m sure there’s no good reason at all – you’ll be a zillionaire, which trumps everything nowadays, doesn’t it?

If you’re this valuable to them, maybe you’ll have similar value somewhere else, and maybe that somewhere else won’t have such negatives associated with it – have you looked?

Nothing personal here, I’m just trying to answer your question.

Herb I would negoiate to try to keep more freedom than they would like you to have. don’t let them censor your words but let them take some of your work.


That’s a LOT of dough. I’d take it in a heartbeat.


you just do what’s right for you and your immediate family

don’t let anyone tell you different

and protect yourself as best you can in the process

getting the best possible outcome is a ammter of negotiation so get the bets IP and Corporate litigation advice you can.

life is a series of compacts. contracts and compromises

Take care of yourself and yours

that’s about the best anyone can do in todays world…

I bet you know what to do anyway

This type of offer reminds me of the conspiracy by Big Oil and The Big Three to buy up all those fantastic inventions, gagits, engines, fuel additives, etc., that would enable regular cars to get over 100 mpg, or run on tap water without any modification.

The conspirators do their thing while Rome slowly burns.

I think it is slightly weird to accept $ for silence…though I suppose you could easily come up with a new moniker.

In any case, just decide if you would you rather regret something you’ve done or something you haven’t done?


I agree with oneula wholeheartedly…BUT

Beware they don’t put a leash and a muzzle on the dog…cause it sounds a bit like they’re steering that way…

Get legal advice - soon - and remember the adage, “My way - or the highway”.

Protect your creative rights.


…the point 2 may be is equal to a clause that maintain B Burger outside this forum…

So they get total control of Herb Spitzer with regards to designing surfboards, and Herb Spitzer gets money?

Thats tough.