My previous post on parallel rails, prompts me to ask:-
Dear Swayoholic, Please complete the following:-
a) Moving the wide point forward on a log longboard (50/50 rails) makes the board… you complete
b) Moving the wide point aft of centre makes the board… you complete
I noticed the Model T (Takayama) has a wide point forward about 6 inches and is somwhat difficult to turn. I was planning on moving the WP back to centre to compare performance. Anyone want to guess?
ALL boards…
Moving the wide point back increases the template curve, generally making it easier to turn at slower speeds and smaller waves. Quicker, more responsive.
The problem comes when you get the WP too far back, causing too wide a tail, too much curve, for the speed of the design of the board, and your body weight.
All subject to change as we continue to evolve our surfboard designs.
Bobsie, Wide point forward is one thing. 50/50 rails is another.
In my experience, wide point forward will give good glide, and stability in trim. 50/50 rails are forgiving and work well on noseriders, but allow water to wrap around them and are therefore slower than downrails. The Takayama Model T is primarily a noserider, and wasn’t designed for quick “turn and burn” surfing.
A wide-point-forward board can have good turning ability by adjusting the rails, and fin placement. If you make the last 1/3 of the board (at the tail) with sharp downrails, the tail will plane on top of the water more, and will “skate”, allowing for looser turning. Sidebite fin placement can help too. More forward and more cant will facilitate quicker turning. Doug
Bobsie, I have found that having the wide point aft of centre on a old school 50/50 railer is the way to go. It seems to me that what is at the back of an old school board is more important than what is up the front. They don’t have to be 19" on the nose to be a good noserider. But they do need hips. I had a 9’6" “Gordon Woods” with a 16" nose and it was a great noserider and it had hips. Having a large fin also helps set close to the tail. I also have a “Ron” which has no hips and the wide point in the centre. The tail is pulled in a bit. This board will not turn. Each time I would step back to do a drop knee turn the board would just roll over on its rail and I would end up having a swim. The hips seem to stabilize the board through turns.
The first two photos show boards with hips. The third is the “Ron”. platty.
thanks VERY much for that bit of information, Dave. That’s something I will keep in mind [along with those helpful photos] when I eventually come to shaping my very first mal…
cheers!
ben
I love that quiver of yours…you seem to have an AMAZING variety of boards there mate! have you been accumulating them over the years, or are you and Mick Mock in partnership or someting. Also, how many of these boards are Kay’s , I wonder ?
In general, WP forward = more speed, less turning; WP back = less speed, more turning.
The idea behind hips is only in practice if you’re standing at or behind the hip. If the rear half of the template curve is over 3.5’ on a 10’ board, as long as you’re behind the WP, its like turning a 7’ board, not a 10’. The problem with hips, is once you get in front of them, you almost wish the fin was right behind the hip instead of at the tail, because if the wave is walled-up at all, the hip will push your fin away from the wave. Eggy rails and a late kick to the tail rocker help suck it back in, but the really hippy boards weren’t made for noseriding. For noseriding, you want more parallel and the only rocker in the board is pretty much in the last 2-3 feet.
Hey Ben. I have a larger collection of photos than actual boards. I take before and after photos of all the restorations I do. We only own 15 boards between us. 9 of them are old collectables that do get wet from time to time. platty.
anyone else have some widepoint experiments and their outcome?
I’ve been putting the wide point on my longboards at center for the last few years with good results. They’re more of a modern style shape, low soft rails that get harder toward the tail, a subtle nose concave and a flat to panel vee off the tail, with a single fin. I like to ride with a bit of old and new school style so this shape suits me just fine.
The template in the photo is a 10ft old school balsa I am building. At this stage I am still building the blank.
The boards dimentions 10’ x 23" x 17.5" nose x 17" tail x 6" pod. Wide point 12" aft of centre.
…6" pod
quick search in the archives & Glossary and I still don’t know what “pod” means. Please enlighten.
thanks
Across the very end/tail, as opposed to “tail” measurement at 12" up.
