XPS Dow "Surfboard" Foam

drewtang , im going to except that reasoning as a valid argument , because ive used similar comments in the past …

so i guess we wait and see …

pinhead !! the polyethylene nonstick isnt the only problem …

when you do peel tests , you get a fine layer of foam stuck to the glass , so there is a bond to the foam …

even tho the foam can flex , its cell structure makes it rigid at a micro level …

its this rigidity that creates poor overall shear properties …

so as soon as you pressure dent it or create a local stress , the bond to the foam will be greater than the bond to itself …

its pretty easy to test the principle …

go and get a chocolate covered marshmallow bar of some description …

then go get a chocalate covered honeycomb bar …

now try and peel the chocolate off both ???

both will have a similar bond at the surface , but the substrate will be the difference as to which one has greater peel strength and resistence …

limiting flex is a key to maximising the use of this foam …

it starts to fall back into the realm of urethane , im not writing this stuff off completly , but if you want to push the limits of strength to weight , then this isnt the answer , but if your satisfied to make a general surfboard with similar properties to urethane except using epoxy instead of polyester , than its an option …

the life expectancy even with use would outlast a urethane board of similar weight , as long as you watch the extreme heat …

the gasing problem is only inherent in surfboards and not insulation …

the poor shear properties means when a cell is broken due to stress , its contents are free, which when combined with the gas from other broken cells form a pocket , this pocket is the wedge , like a small bubble under a sticker on a hot day , it expands , but a sticker only has the small amount of air it started with so only grows so far , XPS will gain more as the bubble grows because as it grows it breaks more cells …

insulation isnt getting pounded and flexed , creating stress , insulation isnt sealed under a layer of glass …

even making the little holes in the glass job , will eliminate the growth of a delam , but it wont stop breakdown due to stress associated with flexing and pounding under the feet …

but the bottom line is , if a superlight urethane blank with a 4oz glass job is exceptable , then so would this stuff be …

for a urethane board builder looking for a fill in , its an option …

but if you were going to use blue XPS dow and epoxy , you might as well use 2.5 lb eps and epoxy …

youll have way better strength and durability , a larger range of flex before problems , its white …

both require extra effort to make , i would choose the one which kept me in business , this time for many , falling back to clark isnt an option , like the last time many made a foray into XPS …

regards

BERT

Thank you. That was much more of an informative, helpful post. Bert, in your experience or others you worked with did you hear of anybody pre-gassing the blanks? As you may know the blue foam is used extensively by hobby airplane builders, and I understand that they pre-gas the foam before lamination (usually balsa skinned vacuum lams, sound familiar?). I’d imagine it’s using the post-cure oven, bringing them JUST PAST the gassing point and back down slowly? Any info on that would be great. Of course, this doesn’t address your shear quality issues with the foam. I’ve really never experienced that,did peel test some “back in the day” with good results. Maybe glassing “in the swamp” like we are in Florida helped? But out main problem was the bubbles which I think can be beaten. As far as lasting the test of time, my first board I shaped: 1995 (I’m only 28) is still going, no dings, no delams, hard as a rock. Of course, hasn’t been ridden in a while. I’m not sure I’d WANT a board to last me that long. I beleive three a year is what an average guy who wants to progress their surfing should go through at least. But, I’m not saying that DOW is the ultimate answer, we’ll do EPS here in most stock boards (just look at the cost difference!!), but you really can’t compare that ride, it’s ssoooo sweet!!! And I think the problems can be fixed. Epoxies have come a long way, isn’t that what everybody’s selling???

My Two Cents (based off of personal experience): NO! DONT DO IT!!! i made a board from XPS in my spare time to test the stuff out… i used the pink xps at homedepot… i glassed it 3x6oz top 2x6oz bottom with epoxy resin from surfsource… i went to try it out for the first time… drove 1 hour to the beach, stopped off at a sonic, then got to the beach… a chunk… let me rephrase that…A CHUNK of resin came off… it was about a 7" diameter disk of resin that popped off, still attached to some glass in spots… i tried to cut it off, but that ended out sloppy, so right now, its being patched w/ duct tape. if you do any styrenes, use EPS. you can buy blocks of EPS from the home depot commercial building desk.

how are the boards going?