XPS Dow "Surfboard" Foam

General Discussion
1

Aloha, I have seen a xps sheet of dow foam called “Roofmate” and called them to find out about where to buy some in my area S. FL , Someone there told me about a product they have called “Surfboard” made just for making surfboards and the Dow rep. tried to hook me up with a customer who buys it to use in boat building. I got a phone # but no one seems to be there…

Has anyone ever heard of either of these products Roofmate or Surfboard from Dow and does anyone know where to find it?? Thanks … D.J.

2

Sorry, haven’t heard of that particular product, though I’m waiting on a shipment from a company called Insulfoam - comes in 2lb density in 2 ft x 8 ft x 4 in blocks - I’ll post how it turns out, please keep us informed if you find out how the dow stuff works.

P

3

Hey Hotcoat try searching the archive here at Swaylocks, type in Roofmate or XPS foam and You’ll find some more info.

I’ve glassed my roofmate blank, but I’ts not finished yet so I can’t tell You anything about the performance.

A lot of people here have posted about XPS blanks delaminating because they let off gas when compressed, try and keep Your boards away from the hot sun and cars et cetera.

Good luck

Erik

4

Don’t know if you have these links yet, went to Dow’s site and searched for keyword “surfboard”…

MSDS 01

MSDS 02

They are in *.pdf format.

5

personally i dont rate it…reckon youll build some then find out about all the side affects and give up … i tried real hard with the stuff between 92 and 95 …shane stedman was building boards with it back in 88 or 89 i personally know about 6 or so manufacturers who have tried real hard to get a production with the stuff …and now salomon have given it a fancy name and are using it as well and will no doubt realise theve done there dough,ive never seen a well used board last longer than 12 months ,where as p/u and eps boards will go the distance …

regards

BERT

6

I’ve seen the Dow surfboard foam at my foam distributor. It is 5" thick, a little heavier density, and more expensive than the Roofmate. I personally didn’t see the point in using it. It’s not even thick enough to do a board with 5" nose rocker without bending it while your resin cures. I use the Roofmate and slice the 3" thick, then glue it back together with the rocker in it.

I had trouble finding the Roofmate at first, but I called the customer service number at the Dow web site and the guy gave me about 10 sources in my area (southern california) not all of them panned out, but I found a good source in Burbank (Foam Sales and Marketing) Their website is:

[url]http://www.foamsalesmarketing.com

[/url]

7

Thanks, Think I will try to get the Roofmate sheets for my next board . just finshed the lam coat on my first board . Why is it that it seems like such a pain to build one of these but I can’t wait to do another one ??? Addictive?

8

Addictive, yes, and very creative and self-satisfying. Have fun with more.

9
Quote:
I've seen the Dow surfboard foam at my foam distributor. It is 5" thick, a little heavier density, and more expensive than the Roofmate. I personally didn't see the point in using it. It's not even thick enough to do a board with 5" nose rocker without bending it while your resin cures. I use the Roofmate and slice the 3" thick, then glue it back together with the rocker in it.

I had trouble finding the Roofmate at first, but I called the customer service number at the Dow web site and the guy gave me about 10 sources in my area (southern california) not all of them panned out, but I found a good source in Burbank (Foam Sales and Marketing) Their website is:

[url]http://www.foamsalesmarketing.com

[/url]

hello Kenz, i think i’ve used it. It was sold to my under the rather mysterious name of spyder foam - thats what its known as in the model aircraft world - i was told that it was originally developed for surfboards but only the aeromodellers have taken to it for theri wings. My chunk was exactly 5 1/2" thick and 8’ long. Enough for fish rocker and actually greater than 5" nose rocker can be achieved by placing the tail end of the rocker template near the deck surface which will allow you to drop the nose of the template down to get more nose scoop.

but I agree it expensive and i wouldn’t bother with it again, its something like 3.2 lb/cu ft density which means getting a superlight or super strong board is difficult. i’ve achieved a much better result with the lighter wallmate and sandwich construction.

both my monolithic epoxy shell spyder foam board and my epoxy/SAN sandwich/wallmate boards are holding up very well - both went thru a phase of being used 3-4 times a week, although i’ve been careful not to leave them inside a hot car - i’ll report any failures with these boards if they occur.

In comparison it didn’t take me long to dent and start delamming my polyester/pu board

10

I’ve checked out the DOW “surfboard” foam. Haven’t shaped with it yet. Need a hotwire tool first. The “surfboard” foam is a real product made by DOW Chemical. No info on their website yet, but it does exist. It is blue, has a very nice density. It definately seems more rigid than the Clark Foam P/U blanks, and therefore, in my opinion seems like a stronger material. It is claimed that the blank formed from these blocks of blue surfboard foam does not need a stringer. And judging by the rigidity and cell structure - it possibly doesn’t need a stringer. Only experimenting with it will tell though.

Another characteristic of this foam is that it’s cell structure is very similar to the P/U blanks of the past, so one can shape it like such using the same tools we’ve used on the P/U blanks.

It comes in block form measuring 5.5" thick X 8’ X 2’. I was quoted the price of $81.00 per block. However a quantity order of 1 pallet (34 pcs ) would bring the per item cost down to $69.00/pc.

And unless you want to deal with a heap of planing or sanding dust, it’s best that you get your outline and rocker, etc by hotwiring it down to you rough shape, then shape like the “old fashioned” P/U blanks.

I was also told that if enough interest is generated in this product, that DOW would manufacture the “surfboard” foam in white. Baby Blue is the current color though, and a color change, they say, would require purging the foam injection lines of the blue to white, resulting in about 100,000 wasted blocks. So it is a huge investment for DOW to change the color.

Hey, why waste it, sell us the blue and white swirl too. Get that cosmic look going.

The foam is compatible with epoxy resin only.

The material is pretty cool, I can’t wait to try it out. Anyone selling a used hotwire tool with variac?

Oh ya - the contact where I went to get a sample and talk foam was in Burbank, CA. Nice people, very knowledgable: http://www.foamsalesmarketing.com/

On their website, they don’t yet list the product, but if you call or e-mail, and ask about the DOW “surfboard” foam, they’ll know what your asking about. Beacause that is what DOW has dubbed the name for this new product - DOW Surfboard foam.

Good Luck, and let me know if you make any boards from this stuff. I’ll do the same - just need a hotwire tool. And I’m not going to even attempt to make a home made one - I’d probably electrocute myself or burn the house down. www.Abeon.com sells kits, but they are kind of pricey - don’t know why, they just are.

Hope this helps.

-m

12
  • one,

I’m interested in your results. I’ve read that xps is prone to de-lams. Fiberglass Hawaii sells the blocks, too. They say the de-lam problems have been largely solved. I prefer to wait for more data from the test pilots before I break with the money. I have a chunk of eps thanks to Benny 1 and Dower to keep me busy, but blue is my favorite color. Saw a kid with one of your boards up here in Monetery Co. last fall. Made me smile. Mike

13
Quote:
  • one,

I’m interested in your results. I’ve read that xps is prone to de-lams. Fiberglass Hawaii sells the blocks, too. They say the de-lam problems have been largely solved. I prefer to wait for more data from the test pilots before I break with the money. I have a chunk of eps thanks to Benny 1 and Dower to keep me busy, but blue is my favorite color. Saw a kid with one of your boards up here in Monetery Co. last fall. Made me smile. Mike

Just an observation but I wonder how they solved the gassing problem when people are still having gassing problems? Also XPS is still made with polyethylene which prevents a good bond.

15

so far so good! mills and shapes great been using some micro dental carbides for out gassing. for accuracy xps hold much more closer tolerance than the eps, one down side is the price.

16

more victims …

can anyone find me someone who has made more than a few hundred boards with this stuff ??

and if they made boards with it , why have they stopped ???

poor shear resistence is the downfall of this foam …

it breaks down under flexing , creating voids which are the start of delams …

boyles law states any gas will expand 1/273rd of its volume with every 1 degree rise in temperature …

doesnt matter what gas they use , its still gas …

20 years on and the stuff is still great for insulation …

regards

BERT

17

I guess we’re all victims one way or another. I’ve shaped easily 100’s of the old stuff in the past if not thousands. You are correct, the old stuff did like to gas. Couldn’t resist experimenting with the “new and improved stuff” time will tell. Won’t know till you try it. Preliminary experiments seem good so far. Not betting the farm yet.

18

I thought the fundamental problem was that the stuff contained polyethylene and becuase nothing sticks to polyethylene, laminations on XPS had poor peel strength. The bond to the foam isn’t stong enough to withstand outgassing or stress from poor shear. Have Dow got a process that doen’t use polyethylene? Quick way to test would be to do a peel test on the new “surf” foam and the standard insulation foam, if the new stuff is significantly better then maybe it’ll hold up.

19

What about those XTR boards? They’re made from white extruded polystyrene aren’t they?

I’ve always been curious as to who supplies XTR with foam.

I’ve also been in contact with the people at DOW here in Sweden for getting white foam, but they also told me their whole machine line would have to be purged and “cleaned” of the blu foam and would be a huge process.

White XPS foamblanks were available here in Sweden in the late eighties and many people made sailboard from them.

Before I made my first board from blue XPS I talked to a Swedish sailboard shaper who said that the foam was great for boards and he never had any problems with it whatsoever. He adviced me that making a board from the blue XPS would be fine and that the boards are very strong.

The board I made is in the picture, it’s a 5’10" for small waves but I’ve also surfed it in headhigh+ waves.

No problems so far with any delams, board is now about one and a half Years old

Glassed with 6 oz bottom and 6+4 deck Spsystems Sp 115 epoxy.

very strong deck, not one dent so far!

No everyday use of this board though! I only use it occasionally as I have a lot of other boards.

20
Quote:

more victims …

can anyone find me someone who has made more than a few hundred boards with this stuff ??

and if they made boards with it , why have they stopped ???

poor shear resistence is the downfall of this foam …

it breaks down under flexing , creating voids which are the start of delams …

boyles law states any gas will expand 1/273rd of its volume with every 1 degree rise in temperature …

doesnt matter what gas they use , its still gas …

20 years on and the stuff is still great for insulation …

regards

BERT

I don’t get it. I mean, all the respect in the world, Bert. We’re all fans of what you’re doing. I feel like one of the only ones not scrambling to copy it. But why would you waste any of your valuable time putting down other foam? The Dow works unreal, it rides great, shapes great, most of the problems have been fixed…Yeah, there’s plenty of guys who’ve used it, we did a few hundred and switched to Clark for convenience and cost, not because we had any problems. I just don’t get the “what I’m doing is best, everybody do it like this” that seems to be infecting the industry. Didn’t we JUST see the problems associated with everybody doing things the same way???. Just because others couldn’t get it wired, don’t write off the whole technology!! The point is there’s so many ways to build a surfboard, all have plusses and minusses, some like using this, some like using that. Good luck to everybody trying “new” stuff, let us know how it turns out for ya.