been surifng an xps board for a fair while now and gotta say im not a fan. it does delam and finplugs and boxes are not as strong. the board feels corky compared to a poly of same dimensions.
so as far as im concerned xps has failed the test. btw it shapes badly. eps is a better alternative if you want to use polystyrene
hey paul i agree with you, i have only done two boards and i was not that happy with the stuff.
It real does not plane well and i ended up doing most of the boards by hand with a surform.The planer teared bad and even melted the foam once , but i am no expert at shaping so could have been me.
I have just ordered some "eskimo blanks " from " the fiberglass shop" in hamilton the price was real good and the blank foam looks primo. have you shaped any of there blanks? if so what your thoughts?
cheers antony
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XPS does have a low melting point therefore making it hard to mow with a planer, I have a special bit being made and air cooled assembly to address this issue for the CNC. There are different types of XPS on the market. The only type that works well for surfing is made by DOW CHEMICAL. The type I used was a special formula call SURFCORE. The original formula was used in the hull of SEA RAY Boats and for building Boat Docks. SURFCORE was a HYBRID of sorts. It was easier to shape than EPS or PU however there were the melting issues. It did however surf real lively. I’ve made some years ago using XPS from CORNING and it was way different. I can only imagine the Chinese stuff?
So in general XPS kind of sucks because it’s hard to process and you have to handle it with kit gloves.
Having said that I have found that the right type of XPS does have some merit. I have some builds in combination of other types of foam that work well. By blending various materials together in a sandwich core gives optimum results.
I have a build starting in about a week when I get back from MEXICO.
All XPS core can be a bit more corky. You might go a extra Meter or two when doing floaters to get past a section. Plus the landings are a bit harder than PU or EPS cores. I have found my own way of working around these issues. The De-lam problems will bite you in the arse if you smooth out the blank before laminating. I leave the skin at 60 grit. You can’t leave them in a hot car just as you wouldn’t leave your baby in his car seat with the windows up on a hot summer day as you go into the market to buy cigarettes and a 24 pack of beer.
Paul your points are valid and yes special care is needed when building with XPS. DOW CHEMICAL doesn’t even make the SURFCORE type any more. I have 10 billets of XPS and half are from the SURFCORE Formula. These will be blended with other Foam Cores in order to produce the desired result!
Kind regards,
Surfding AKA Michael
I used a little bit for rails on a few compsands and found it worthless for surfboards,I do use a 3/4"x4"x11" chunk for a sanding block while shaping eps though so it has some purposes!
I’m really glad you find it usless.
Eric Arakawa (Hawaiian Shaper) introduced it to the surfing world Early 2000’s
Of course if the shape is horrible it will be useless just has a poorly shaped board in PU or EPS.
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Eric Arakawa (Hawaiian Shaper) introduced it to the surfing world Early 2000's
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I usually stay off these xps threads, but you need to get your facts straight. Thousands of xps boards were made in the late 80s-early 90s, until the shortcomings of the material became fully apparent and it was abandoned.
Every material has its shortcomings. Proper construction minimizes these.
Upside to XPS is it doesn’t water-log. This can be helpful in a surfboard.
Mike:
You are a lot more knowable than I am. Eric Arakawa was in Huntington Beach doing a Demo with XPS and all the upcomming PRO kids were testing these boards (2000?). If there was previous work with it I don’t know that and stand corrected. Greg Mugal was doing EPS EPOXY in the 70’s. XPS I did not know until 2000. I worked with the Head Shaper from Channel Island (2005) making 100’s of blanks that went into making many team boards. The XPS that we worked with had performance enhancement features. Yes in a manufacturing setting it is not a very user friendly material to work with. Most likely in Florida you guy’s are much more advance than we are in California?
I worked with one of the Top Shaper Innovators (Friend of Bert Burger) of San Clemente California making a combination Core with XPS and EPS (VAcuumed bagged the core).
The results were outstanding from a perpective of surfers feedback from surfers who actually know how to surf.
XPS DOW SURF CORE did you make any boards with it?
Just like EPS 2.0 Molded from two different manufacturer is not the same. One will melt like a ice cream and the other more stable. Were dealing with Chemistry. One Manufacturer I set the RPMS at 7,500 and the other at 10,000. Construction Grade EPS is retarded.
I have a sandwich build I’m revisiting that it looks like I need to keep it to myself to prevent the mud slinging here on swaylocks.
Kind regards and Have a nice Sunday,
Surfding
Eric Arakawa (Hawaiian Shaper) introduced it to the surfing world Early 2000’s
CORRECTION
It should have been written this way:
Eric Arakawa introduced Huntington Beach, California to XPS Core Surfboards. (I believe it was early 2000?)
If FLORIDA or anywhere else was messing with it yearlier I don’t know I was out of the country for 8 1/2 years:
FRANCE, CHILE and GUATEMALA 1991 - 1998 so I miss a lot of History but surfed some uncrowded point breaks in the process. Mike Daniels would be much more qualified to speak about XPS than I .
My bad!
Surfding
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hd2zHUyC1D4&feature=player_embedded
I used the Dow Chemical floormate 200-x. It is the blue board and it is 2lbs/ft3 density. It worked pretty well. Very easy to shape, but did initial outline and rocker with hotwire and finished by hand.
The board rides with a lot of life in it. It is stiff but flexed when loading the back foot. Also very buoyant.
Cannot see any issues. Also not problems with delam. Though I am careful not leaving in the car during the day. But would not do with most things anyways.
I personally prefer to EPS.
Do not arouse the wrath of the great and powerful Oz.
In Oz use RTM-X Dow as it has the closest properties that surfding was talking about. 6 boards now in this stuff and no delams.
Foamhack thank you for that!
These guy are trying to make me look like an idiot!
Like I said there are different types of XPS.
Kind regards,
Surfding
No worries Surfding!
Everyone has their own opinions… but mine is after using the “Right” XPS (for personal use)… I wouldn’t go back, I finished a old EPS board the other day and took it for a ride… my fault… glassed it “light” (one layer of 6 oz all over) like I would for XPS… already heel dents…and all the rest…
So everyone has their own preference… some will never get off PU, some have gone back to balsa, some have found EPS the best… me, I want to keep on trying and mucking around with new stuff… so XPS is the newest for a while (that you can buy in oz)… until another waterproof, closed cell, stronger and better foam comes along! (cant wait for the day that we can shape a blank in the morning and go and ride it in arvo with no skin!! then make adjustments overnight! - Maybe I’m a dreamer!)
“But (I’m) You’re not the only one …”
~ John Lennon ~
hi michael.i have perserverd with this board and it is a duplicate of my polys. i have had good surfs on it and many barrels, so it does work as a surfboard. i find it is a bit too light for my tastes and seems to have a tendency to do things the poly,eps and compsands dont do. it seems to blow plugs easily for a start as the bond to the foam is weak. and it does delam. you cant see it on a white board but if you do a tint like i did so i could see these things the delams were apparent. very small delams that migrate and do not lift much off the foam so they would be very hard to see in a white board. perhaps as you say if was left at 60 grit it wouldnt had been a problem, although i generally dont finish my blanks past 80 anyway. a good point is you dont need to worry about dings i guess. i certainly would think twice about making one for customer!
This is the board that turned me on to light weight - Circa 1994.
XPS glued up with profiles cut from DOW styro wall insulation and a Gabon stringer. Glassed in blue-tinted 6oz with dirty ol' West System.
Shaped to a 60 grit finish and rolled with a pokey-wheel made from leather perforating tools.
It was foolishly light, but by jeez it went well - an absolute favourite. I did a move on it where people actually hooted!!!
It lasted a good while but died of the cancer...6 in. round delams - and the plugs fell out.
RIP - Under the floor of a barn outside Byron, with its mildly gunny 6'6 bro.
So I think I'll let someone else prove that XPS and resin should ever go together.
JD
my stringerless xps hulls go killer!
well, i’m no expert with this stuff, as I’ve done about 10, and the only one that delaminated was one made of surfboard specific IXPS…!
I can only get the pink Polyfoam, and so far haven’t had any issues with longevity. I took the hints and only sanded it to 40, forget the rest. Ends up a fuzzy little blank, and maybe that’s it?
of course the sea is cold as up here, so maybe that has something to to with it. Anyway, I’m a fan, but only do the rare one for paying - and responsible - customers.
ripped out fin plugs aren’t a problem as I use Lokboxes pretty much all the time. That isn’t a paid endorsement either…just saying. I have never liked FCS in EPS/XPS/Anything really…
I agree with foamhack. I undersand people have had bad experience with XPS; but someone’s here comment was based on 1994 experience.
XPS formula has changed through time due to enviro regulation. I wonder if its has also gotten more shaper friendly…No problems so far, going for a year of abuse now with no bubbles.