I jsut wanted to let you guys know that boards made with XTR blanks are still delaming. I talked to Javier and he said that his thermo vents eliminated the problem. Mine has the pin holes and it still delams. Does anyone know a cheap way to fix the problem?
Take your grinder and run around the edges of the delam. The delam’d portion being higher will sand into first and the glass will fall out of the center. Reglass and finish off as a normal lamination. Greg Loehr had told me the Dow closed cell EPS foam contains 10% polypropolene, this is why epoxy, which sticks to almost anything, delams from this type of EPS
Interesting…Are there any foams without polypropelene? Thanks for the help Jim, your words of wisdom and advice are always appreciated.
I can assume, since all of the extruded EPS seems to come from DOW it must have it in it. I started using the extruded foam when Pedro Vasquez’s SVF had it for sale in the late eighties. ALL of the boards I made from it BROKE, they didn’t get time to delam. I was using 1/2" poplar stringer on 6’0" boards, with epoxy hotcoats. The foam is rock hard, but has NO flexiblity, I saw Clay Bennett hit the lip and snap his board before my eyes! It was an extruded DOW blank too!
Dave, I’ve got an XTR/epoxy board on order from Javier. So I’m really interested in your delam problems. How long did it take for the delam to occur? Did the board ever get hot enough for the wax to start melting? Thanks, Jonnie
I was at the PLumeria shop in Cardiff and they had a BREWER XTR team board there, it had caved in and delm’d in less then a month, but it looked like it had been ridden hard and put away wet. It had a tell tale crack along the stringer where it had broken open and taken in water.
Jim, That was polyethylene which is very similar to polypropylene so I see how you could get the two mixed up. Also there are blowing agents still in the foam which also cause delam problems and other issues such as post expansion over dark colors. The reason most of the Dow boards broke was because they oriented the cells for better inpact strength on the deck. This made the break strength lower. The XTR foam is being made by Owens-Corning which is somewhat different and I haven’t heard anything on it’s breaK strength, positive or negitive. It is lighter density than the Dow stuff was back in the 80’s. Also, Haviers vent system is still, in my mind, in the proving stages and the negitive report above is the first I’ve heard. Anyway, all these things added up are the reason I am still an EPS advocate.
Delam time…I did have the board in my car for a couple of hours, but I had no black on any part of the logos except for the XTR Racing Surfboards logos on the rails. I didn’t even get time to ride my board hard because it was small for a month. I would just be carefull and not let the board sit in the sun too long, kinda hard here in S. Cal. I try and get a warranty from Javier to fix any delams that occur within the first two months----taht ain’t much to ask for. I have never ever had a regular board delam so quick. If they delamed in 4 to six months of hard surfing then I figure that is fair. I mean we are dealing with unstable materials. Good luck. Can’t wait for the technology to produce light and durable boards…maybe just a pipe dream…
Greg, where can I get an Owens Corning blank? Is that what Point Blanks uses because I “hear” they don’t delam? I want the lightness of the extruded foam but I can’t afford the delamination repairs.
If delam is the issue just use EPS foam. It never delams. Jim Phillips is working with some that are molded and I think Clyde Beatty sells cut EPS in Santa Barbera. I’m not sure what Point Blanks uses but they are a possible source as well.
Jim, I saw the same thing…a crack down the stringer. I had never seen that before. I thougth that the glue or adhesive used to glue in the stringers was strong enough to hold the two peices of foam. Jim, where can I get a beaded EPS blank?