What are people’s thoughts on XTR vs EPS. I found out that CI is now doing more boards in EPS and less in XTR. I’ve never had an XTR although I have ridden EPS boards. I really like the responsiveness and resilency of EPS. But I know that XTR might be better in the long run if I ever get a ding, in that it does suck in water like EPS does. Anyways I am debating whether I should order a K-Small now with EPS (which is also about $100 cheaper) or XTR (costs more and takes 6 months for customs). Also what are your suggestions on the glassing? I heard you can go a little heavier on the glass because of the weight of the foam. Would 6/4/6 be too heavy? Or would 4/4/4 with a deck patch be better. I kind of slam my knee into my deck somehow when I stand up. I don’t notice I do it but I can see it on my deck pretty quickly, that’s why I’d like to have a little more glass on the board.
I disagree that a molded EPS will suck water at any different rate than the extruded material. I also feel that the $100 difference in the two boards is silly. The XTR should be worth $100 less because of it’s increased chance of blowing up due to outgassing so much. I have been riding and severely beating on several molded EPS steadily over the last 3 years. I am the poster child for “tough on equipment” and I see no disadvantage in using this material over any other with the obvious exception of compsands, carbon fiber hollows and a Surftech/Cobra type unit.
If the XTR was such a super foam as touted by some why is DOW ceasing production? If you want a collector’s item get an XTR now because it appears that they may be in very short supply after DOW quits making the gassy crap. There are a couple of very tight 2# molded EPS foams in the surf market in SoCal at the moment that totally outclass DOW XTR. I just don’t think the extra cost of extruded is required for water intrusion concerns.
XTR ,XPS ,EPS…very confusing
XTR foam from this company http://epoxysurfboards.com./ does not “suck” or take on water in any way. It is not blue foam from Dow chemical. Check it out for yourself…
Share the stoke
Ray
XTR ,XPS ,EPS…very confusing
XTR foam from this company http://epoxysurfboards.com./ does not “suck” or take on water in any way. It is not blue foam from Dow chemical. Check it out for yourself…
Share the stoke
Ray
Blue dow foam is the same foam as XTR!!!
It’s both XPS, XTR is just a brand name like “styrofoam”.
(just manufactured by someone else, like US blanks and walker blanks are both PU)
I love XPS, just because it’s so fun to shape it en because it doesn’t suck water, you can prevent it from further delam just by pinching a hole in the lam.
But if you lam it properly and you handle the board with care it won’t delam!
I like XPS very much.
If dow is decreasing its production IT IS NOT BECAUSE OF THE SURFING INDUSTRY!
It not very bright to say negative things about a competing product here on the internets.
Sorry to disappoint but I neither sell or manufacture either product. I don’t stand to gain a thing from personally liking one more than the other. Mr. Mean asked for “thoughts” on extruded vs molded EPS and my thought is now as it always has been that extruded is not as clean or easy to use for a conventionally glassed surfboard as molded EPS. I like my EPS surfboards and will continue to ride them and get more of them even though I manage a polyurethane blank manufacturing company now. My comments about both types of EPS are born from my personal experience and it was pretty clear to me that was what Mr.Mean had asked for. I am not after anybody here my freind, ease up.
The Dow extruded contains 10% polyethelene, milk jug material, nothing sticks to it, this is why there is a delam problem with it.
As for the thermo vents to let gas out, but no water in, how does a “closed” cell foam have gas migrate from cell to cell, but water be barred from entering, “may I see some Identification”
cbalzac,
Thanks for your review of EPS. I am just stating what I’ve heard about EPS and glad to know that you have tried both and prefer the EPS. After talking with the guy at Channel Islands, he also suggested going with and EPS board over XTR. I had just heard a lot of good things about XTR but wondered if EPS had the same resiliancy and other good qualities, why not just go with EPS. I’ve already ridden them and know they feel great. I just wanted to know if XTR had some superior qualities I was unaware of.
I was the Dow distributor for XPS a few years ago. I have been a user of EPS for over 25 years. In the case of each, if EPS is made right, (i.e. Ameriacan blanks, Marko, Fiberglass FL hard shot, Austin, WMC, White Hot, etc.), it doesn’t take on any more water than a urethane blank. In the case of XPS, it doesn’t take on water but does have heat related issues. It doesn’t surprise me that a builder in Belguim has success with this material. Try building a business in FL with the stuff. Bottom line, both are fine materials BUT you cannot build a business around building XPS boards (unless you live in a very cool climate). You’ll have a 25% return rate and in business you won’t survive for long. EPS is different. EPS allows you to build many different products many of which are marketable. Reliability is the issue and for business it’s EPS. For a home builder XPS is fine but IMHO todays EPS is so good why use XPS?
You’re right on that.
I use my boards on my trips to france too, and I don’t have problems probably because I’m careful.
But like you say, I will never sell XPS boards (That’s digging your own grave).
This post sure makes it appear that you have an interest in a competing product.
Hey Greg
As we live in a similar climate and given your length of experience with the epoxy / eps construction I’d like your advice on one question. What is your opinion regarding vents in eps boards . Sorry if I’m going over previous ground but I can’t recall reading what you think on this.
Cheers
Mooneemick
I’ve never used vent and never saw a need. I think though when your dealing with 1# foam it could make sense in some climates. Deserts.
Venting is a good thing when you travel by plane!
I’ve taken my 2# eps on the plane enough times, and to hot tropical climes, to feel confident no vent is needed. On the other hand, my earlier xps boards bubbled in the hot summers here on the Oregon coast. Just my thoughts.
Built a couple of Xps boards from the blanks that shapers Aust have, Shithouse to shape, but strong as steel. Did a 6’2 quad for a mate who spent a couple of weeks in the Maldives, pretty warm, long trip in an aeroplane, no gassing, no delam and no dents .
Just waiting for the machined ones I’v just finished to be ridden.
I haven’t heard of any reports of delams with the shapers xps.
I quite like the foam just a bitch to shape.
6’0 x 18 1/2 x 2 1/4 with 4+4 deck and 4 bottom with fcs came in at 5 3/4 lbs.
Bloody hard to dent as well.
Regards
Daren
I have a warehouse full lof XPS blanks. No one will buy them so they are worthless. They do ride unreal and I have been lucky however there is a failure rate with customers that leave them in a hot car. I have some customers that love them and take good care of them. Like Greg Lohr says, “you can’t build a business around xps”. Dow will never improve the XPS and make them heat stable because surfing is not a business for them to consider to be in. With some engineering XPS could be the material of choice.
Thanks Daren. Keep up the reports on Your results please. I’ve seen that shapers australia claim theres no gas in those blanks. There’s some guys making XPS boards here in Sweden, most of them report no problems.
I’ve made one, it had a football size delam on the bottom of all places but only after spending a day in the sun.
Maybe you could clarify: When you state “Molded EPS”, are you generally speaking about all EPS whether its molded into huge blocks the size of a room and cut into billets to be then wire cut into blanks, as well as EPS that is molded in a mold the shape of a blank?
As far as XPS, back in the early 90’s I worked at 2 shops in Miramar. One that glassed Hi-Tech Sailboards the other that glassed Rustys. Both tried XPS which then was being marketed as “SVF”. It was eventually abandoned because of all the gassing/ delam problems.
I’ve heard recently that Patagonia/F Chounard is now offering the option to use EPS instead of XPS.
Sorry for the confusion. Everyone seems to use their own pet terms for materials other than urethane, yeah? I consider “molded EPS” to be made using beads, prexpanding them and then putting them in a mold to be forced together with steam/pressure. The molds can be big rectangles that produce “billets” that are hot wire cut into shapes or “shape molds” like Marko and USBlanks produce. (DOW uses a completely different process for their white and blue “extruded” EPS.)
Having dealt with both shape molding and wire cut billets I formed a preference for one more than the other but, they both work.