“…surfboards are not a business I would steer anyone towards today. Molded boards, shaping machines, Chinese boards. The custom craftsman is vertually a thing of the past in all business. Mass produced imports rule all but a small slice of all sports equipment business today. Surfboards will be no different.” (from comments by Greg Loehr, 2nd Light Forum)
“…surfboards are not a business I would steer anyone towards today. > Molded boards, shaping machines, Chinese boards. The custom craftsman is > vertually a thing of the past in all business. Mass produced imports rule > all but a small slice of all sports equipment business today. Surfboards > will be no different.”>>> (from comments by Greg Loehr, 2nd Light Forum) Maybe, but it is still nice to know you can get a custom shape, to your specs, from a skilled craftsmen. They do it for the simple love of the sport and to put a smile from ear to ear on a clients face…Plain and simple…
Almost every appliance in my home is cheaper to replace than repair or close to it, lets hope it doesnt get that way. Go to walmart get a bicycle tire tube,couple of light bulbs and a new board! I think the new surfers whos parents are buying will be getting cheap pop outs for christmas but if they stick with it will realize that the benefits of the custom out weighs the cost. All the big companies may turn to mass production to be more competitive or make more profit or whatever, but there will always be the local custom shops with the local wave knowledge building the best boards for that area at a reasonable cost.
These popuut boards and sweatshop boards mirror what the mainstream is producing. My customers are into boards that are not available off the rack. This is niether bad or good. I really don’t care what the mainstream is up to. It doesn’t affect me. This is not meant to be an egotistical approach at all. After years of production shaping it’s just the path I’ve chosen. aloha, tom
i’m not a professional, but i sure wouldn’t recommend building surfboards to anyone as a business. as a hobby, diversion, obsession, etc. definitely. but business, to make money, there’s got to be a million easier ways.
I think JR’s nailed it. After you get serious, the Chinese and some of the moldies are just too limited in design variations to satisfy the good surfer. I just don’t see this as a long term problem. How many first-time boards can you sell in a year? Surfboards are not like boogers where a typical family can buy two or three, throw 'em in the back of the van and head to the beach 2 to 5 times a year. Coleman makes their money selling boogers to people who live several states from the ocean. Why? After their one time vacation to the beach they can still use a booger in the pool or lake. I think there are a few international companies that are testing an untested market for a product they think they can produce overseas at a below market cost. After a couple of years of no-growth, they’ll go out of business. Patagonia’s are just too expensive to make it on a large scale. That leaves the Bic’s of the world. I’m sorry but, coolness is still a huge part of surfing and a Bic will never be cool. KKL is a tool just like a planer or surform. Its just an extremely sophisticated one. Did rocker templates ruin the industry? No one used them before 1980. Was that cheating? How many times have the large manufacturers “threaten” the custom board industry in the past? At least twice every decade. By in large, the hand shaped (KKL’s have to be refined by a craftsman before you glass them), hand glassed board built by experienced craftsmen are still the product of choice. And I don’t see that changing soon. Building surfboards has always been a sketchy career. The people that “made it” started 'cause they loved making boards but ultimately were successful because they were good business people: Hobie, Gordon and Smith, Hansen, O’Neil, Rusty, Merrick. Greg is wrong, it’s just a little section you have to ride through to get to the open face… Newbs
the entities who go after the big bucks in surfing have to sell more than surfboards. that’s why aside from having a stub-nose fish, a big-guy thruster, and a nice semi-gun in your product line, you might also be selling trunks, and even ‘girl’s fuzzy bedroom slippers’ with your logo on them. it looks like you either eek by with soul and dignity intact, or you become sort of a ‘Martha Stewart’ life-style commercial juggernaut. and i’m not really making any judgements, i like money as much as anyone else. kudos to anyone who makes an honest living doing what they love.
“…surfboards are not a business I would steer anyone towards today. > Molded boards, shaping machines, Chinese boards. The custom craftsman is > vertually a thing of the past in all business. Mass produced imports rule > all but a small slice of all sports equipment business today. Surfboards > will be no different.”>>> (from comments by Greg Loehr, 2nd Light Forum) to Dale and others — I remember the pop-outs of years ago, some of these same pop-outs I have seen on e-bay for sale as classics. Hmmm any product hand made has it’s back against the wall trying to compete against mass produced anything. What I have noticed in the past say 9 - 14 months is a slow price increase of those still hand shaped/modern classic boards. Is this a “free market” adjustment regarding price? Point being… quality in and of itself is the the qualifier… As others have said quite possibly some one who rides , say , a Bic would discover upon growing in love with such a fine sport that what is beneath the riders feet is significant. How can we ride and love and NOT appreciate someone else’s love and craftsmanship that carries us as being’s to aqua-hallowed-happiness. Keep charging and I’ll keep paying! regards peter
This is a funky analogy but here goes; I’ve been playing guitar nearly as long as I’ve surfed and every few years the guitar manufacturers start whining about “the foreign” markets ruining their industry. Gibson, Martin and Guild moaned and groaned about Yamaha in the 70’s. It was Tokai in the 80’s and now Samick and other Korean or Mexican instruments. Yeah, all the beginners and college kids bought tons of cheap guitars but it taught them to appreciate what good luthiery is all about. It opened a whole niche market of boutique manufacturers like Collins and Anderson who make fantastic guitars at astronomical prices with 2 year waiting lists. Hell, I just paid $600 for a new Liddle! About a $300 markup and I’m not complaining in the least. I hope Greg isn’t listening but I would have paid $900, 'cause no one out there does what he does. Same thing with Frye, Merrick or Rusty. I don’t want to put ideas in Dale’s head, but those air bags are very unique and the people who want them would probably pay more than $300 too! Who knows, maybe were entering the Golden Age… Newbalonie
I think JR’s nailed it. After you get serious, the Chinese and some of the > moldies are just too limited in design variations to satisfy the good > surfer. I just don’t see this as a long term problem. How many first-time > boards can you sell in a year? Surfboards are not like boogers where a > typical family can buy two or three, throw 'em in the back of the van and > head to the beach 2 to 5 times a year. Coleman makes their money selling > boogers to people who live several states from the ocean. Why? After their > one time vacation to the beach they can still use a booger in the pool or > lake. I think there are a few international companies that are testing an > untested market for a product they think they can produce overseas at a > below market cost. After a couple of years of no-growth, they’ll go out of > business.>>> Patagonia’s are just too expensive to make it on a large scale. That > leaves the Bic’s of the world. I’m sorry but, coolness is still a huge > part of surfing and a Bic will never be cool.>>> KKL is a tool just like a planer or surform. Its just an extremely > sophisticated one. Did rocker templates ruin the industry? No one used > them before 1980. Was that cheating?>>> How many times have the large manufacturers “threaten” the > custom board industry in the past? At least twice every decade. By in > large, the hand shaped (KKL’s have to be refined by a craftsman before you > glass them), hand glassed board built by experienced craftsmen are still > the product of choice. And I don’t see that changing soon.>>> Building surfboards has always been a sketchy career. The people that > “made it” started 'cause they loved making boards but ultimately > were successful because they were good business people: Hobie, Gordon and > Smith, Hansen, O’Neil, Rusty, Merrick. Greg is wrong, it’s just a little > section you have to ride through to get to the open face… Newbs Yep, I agree Greg is wrong: the key to making it in the surfboard business is the same as any other business 1)Know your business–all parts -manufactoring,wholesale,retail,advertising & marketing 2)Vision-without a vision thats your own -you will fail 3) People-surround yourself with those who will help you succeed 4)Money-you need to be liquid enough to do whatever needs to be done or grow when the time comes A self made millionaire told me this before he died and ten years later I know he was right on all bases—another pearl he told me was "if you gotta do without one of these let it be the cash cause without knowledge,vision,& people all the cash in the world won’t save you but if you have those three the cash will come and well thats how I am in this business and hopefully 5-10 years from now you’ll all see the cash did come and I never sold out along the way and I did my best to be fair,honest and make the best boards I know how! NOW, will I be rich ? Never was the plan just to provide a honest living for myself and family and to have my sanity at the end of the day—as for Rusty,Merrick,etc whatever their plan is -I hope for the best for them (same for Loehr) but I would rather be smaller and more specilized and personal kinda like Cooperfish cause in the end success isn’t measured by $$$ but by happiness and peace of mind----to all who choose surfboards as a hobbie,vocation, or investment I wish you the best and stand ready to help in anyway as I know most of the Swaylock’s do—good luck and enjoy what you do as one man said “find out what you are passionate about doing and then figure out how to make money at it!”
Here are my thoughts Clay.You are a rich man,you have your own shop,a great following and although it is a hassle sometimes you probably look forward to going to work in the morning.How many guys in our age group are still into building boards?Jim Phillips is another guy who will never have a fat wallet but he is rich beyond words.Time weeds out the real craftsmen,keep it up.I just wonder how you married guys got your wives to accept foam dust in the house and bed.