How do you think a quad would work with its back fins with 0° cant and no toe?
Lets say front fin at 11", back fins between 4" and 4.5", 0° cant, no toe and placed maybe 1 1/2" away from stringer so 3" Inches between the two, maybe closer if need be. I would assume it would feel closer to a thruster have more pivot that most quads and drive but your back fins could be small reducing drag. Anyone?
I’m no expert on quads but I’d think that with a double sided foil, you’d be fine on the trailers - no cant, no toe-in. Quite a number of people are using double foiled keels as twin fins with no cant and no toe-in.
I’m not saying it would be optimal… likely only experimenting will disclose that.
Very well, i make most of my quad only like this. With 5 fins option i put fins slightly forward end nearer rail with light toe-in and cant.
Any numbers your willing to share or fins that work well?
My idea was to but 2 future f4 (thruster) back fins on it
…hello, seems there s a confusion about the meaning of the things; is the same with “single fins” etc
What type of quad you ll shape?
What type of bottom in the tail?
What s the type of movement that you want to generate?
What s your style of Surfing?
What s your biotype?
What type of waves?
After that you would think in the fin placement
I use a quad layout with the fins aboutthe same distance from the tail. The rear have no cant or tow, but I put them about equal distance from the stringer and rail. This is stiffer than when the fins are set closer to the rail. I like the solid feeling I get with this versus a looser twin fin like feeling when the rears are close to the rail. I’ve used both single and double foiled rears. I’ve also gone with big fronts and very small rears. I call that my twin with training wheels.
This board was setup to be a quad, but I played with this fin setup. It has double sided fronts and single sided rears. I’ve since made larger single sided keels and used it as a twin, and with these small rears. The bigger keels are a lot of fun, they hold in better for me. The boxes allow me to use a variety of cant inserts from 0 to 9 degrees. Front fins have about 1/8" tow, mybe 3/16". The board is 5-9 x 22" x maybe 3", definitely close to 3" thick at center.
What reverb said. Putting the fins closer to the stringer will make the board ride like a thruster with fewer of the benefits of a quad. I do a lot of quads. I originally did something like the McKee set up with the quads basically halfway between the stringer and the rail. Ride more like thruster. Over the years I have come to prefer them more on the rail, which results in a looser, faster turning board that is easy to get speed. I don’t even make thrusters anymore for myself because they seem slow and lack drive as compared to my go to quad. I place the fins at the following; quads 5"-9.5" trailing edge of fin 1.5" from rail, front fins set at 11"-15.5" with trailing edge 1.25" from rail. All fins aimed at same point off the nose (basically 2" off stringer). I like quite a bit of cant, and set front fins about 7 degrees, and quads at about 3 degrees. I like a board that goes top to bottom quickly but can be carved and held on a rail but still release the fins out the lip or at the apex of a turn and this set up does it.
My “standard base” fins position for board up to 6’7 quad only : front: 280mm from back, 27mm from rail, 15mm toe in, 6°cant. Back 125mm from back, 43mm from rail, 0 toe-in, 0 cant. Alternative 130 from back, 37 rail, 5 toe-in, 2° cant. I move from there to customise for rider désire. My understand is back fins nearer front is looser faster twin feeling. More toe-in help shorten turns but loose some drive/speed on long turn. Cant give more lift, loose feeling, more projection out of turns but less control and on eggs feeling when board is flat, you know at end of good drop full speed when you have to bottom turn and you feel “nothing” under your back foot…
Thank you all for the feed back I think I have gotten most of what I was looking for the basic concept behind doing this is to mimick the drive, control and pivot of the thruster but with some of looseness and speed (though turns) a quad set up. I think the last thing I need to decide on is the can’t of the back fin should I go vertical or a bit 2 or 3 degrees? What would be the benifits and draw backs to having a degree or none of can’t? As far as how close to the stringer think I’m gonna keep them close (1 1/2 max off stringer) with no toe
I strongly suggest getting boxes that will allow you to experiment. Probox allows for cant and fore-aft adjustments. 4-Way does all that and adds tow adjustments. Probox is designed to work with older FCS fins or probox style fins. 4-Way uses it’s own fin tab design.
Using the 4-Way fin system would allow you to get the data you are asking for, plus you could fine tune the tow to suit you. The only thing you have to decide on is placing the box, the distance from tail and rail.
Every break has a unique aspect that would make it hard to say one thing is better or not. I surf a beach with 4 breaks in about a 1/2 mile stretch. Each one is a little different, and favors certain kinds of boards from longboards to high performance short boards.
…hello, please understand this right; I am not trying to be impertinent but seems that you did not read my previous comment, also the practical example that Hiloshaper posted.
What Sharkcountry mentions is very good in the reasearch department.
There s no magical measurement, that practical measurement depends on those questions. To answer those, you need to think about your previous boards etc
If you have a 5 8 x 18 x 2 1/4 HP quad and you want to move the board in a dime then search for the pocket on and on to gain speed and to have modern hardcore Surfing plus may be you are big, etc is not the same that if you are building a 6 8 x 21 x 3 low rockered quad and to want soul arcs or down the line and may be you are small etc
Then may be your standing position is TOO CLOSE or you are a front foot surfer.
I can write a lot but you have the point; so please, seat down and not ask for a magical number.
Too much theory and nothing concrete you can say, again Hiloshaper put a practical example.
I can add that if you have the complete quad experience and if you are a very good skilled surfer (so you always surf by the rails, carving) and surf consistent walls you better go not so small on the rears regarding the front ones.
I let you one example: if you have plenty of tail rocker the shape and position of the fin (regarding backwards or forward movements) should var depending on the intention of the board
Think about it.
Reverb has a good point about stance too. I’m old and from the single fin generation. I tend to stand with my feet closer together than the kids today, and I tend to stand further up. Opening up my stance makes a world of difference for performance surfing, and having the rear foot on the right part of the tail makes a lot of difference too, doesn’t matter if I ride a single fin, tri, quad or 5 fins. The further back you get your rear foot and the more you press with that foot, the more you can shorten the radius of your turn. That’s probably the biggest reason today’s surfers use a stomp pad, for rear foot placement. I don’t use them.
Thank you reverb for your comments on this thread I did read your last post and although it may seam like I’m looking for some magic number I am not just seeing what people think or if they have experimented with no cant , no toe in and close to stringer quad sets and can give me some feed back based on there own experiences with that set up.
That is a good point he made I guess I should have made it clear what kind of board I’m thinking of putting this on. It would be a hp board with a bit of a wider tail block. So yes the back foot placement is going to be over or behind the fin cluster Right up against the stomp pads kicker
Howzit! Like your ideas. I prefer on the rail myself. But have been gradually bringing then in a bit.
Since you are shooting for a high-performance turn oriented board I think putting the fins 3 inches apart is to close. At that distance I’m not convinced you will get the benefits you seek of a quad. At 3 inches I think it will feel just like a thruster but possibly stiffer but lack the same thrust and instant acceleration of a quad. I’m not sure what you mean by pivot. On a single fin longboard you stand on the tail and pivot at slower speed. On a hpsb if you are really pivoting you are going slow. There are a number of things you can do to increase the tightness of your arc in turns so that it might feel more like a pivot but is really a tight radius carve. Increasing tail rocker, more curve in the tail, widening the tail in some designs or even those soft tail channels like are on a sci-fi will all make the board looser and tighter turning.
All other paramètres equal, More cant=more lift=over water feeling=more speed=less control. But 1° will not change face of world.
Thanks for your info lemat it’s been useful in understanding how it might feel
