5 fins?

General Discussion
1

Ok, I know this is probably going to sound dumb but what is supposed to be the added benefit of a 5 fin board over a thruster styled one for short boards? looking around it also seems like the fins on a 5 fin setup get progressively smaller toward the rail (with a Large center fin) as opposed to the standard three skeg, is there a reason for this? And do the the 4 side fins have the same cant and toe?

Looking around to try to figure this out I came across the HIC converter bottom style- Has anyone tried this and/or have an opinion about this??? www.hicconverter.com

Thanks all

Joe~

2

fun…

…prawn 5 finner.jpg"]

3

I’m very Bonzer ignorant. </>

Also I hear they really do not work nearly as good if the surf is not so clean.Worse than a standard thruster would be, is this so?

Any info on this I would appreciate.

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Cheers

-Tony

4

Chip, is the cant really a bonzer 20 deg on the side fins on that board?

If not, how does it ride differently?

5

hi Blakestah !

No. The " joggers " [little runners] are pretty straight up and down…

…no concaves in the board’s bottom either [unfortunately].

The performance ?

…it’s hard to put into words. The only way I can describe it, is maybe it’s like riding a wide skateboard in a bowl with wide trucks, loosened up, and with wide grippy wheels. [ Which may not really mean a lot, I suppose, to people who don’t skate. ]

I definately feel ‘squirt’ and ‘hold’ during cutbacks, but when I change the back box fin to a fibreglass thruster fin, I definately feel lots of looseness / slide during turns [which I’m not a huge fan of].

And now, having said all that, putting in the three tab fibreglass keels gives me the ‘whooosh’ sensation too [gee, aren’t I one for technical terms ?? …sorry about that !]

Like I say, it’s hard to put into words…if the fish holds up for another winter, I’d hope to be able to video a couple of powerful mates riding it with the five fin setup…then I MIGHT ,hopefully, get a clearer picture of what the fins are really doing. [ Freeze frame video is SUCH a good learning tool , I reckon !]

ben

here’s another 5 fin option …


6

Here’s a link to Malcomb Cambell’s site for more complete information: http://www.bonzer5.com/

But, my experience with 5 fins in general and Bonzers specifically is that they thrive in steep square waves. They work best for me when I really surf hard off my back foot. With a 6.5" or 7" center fin, the don’t drift, slide or wash out. They just project. So, you better be prepared for speed you’ll carry through really hard turns. If you’re not low enough, centrifugal force will throw you over the top. Now in slower softer waves you really can’t surf hard off the tail and then to me they just feel like I’m pulling around alot of fin area.

7

Tomatdaum. that is a perfect explanation of how I feel my Bonzer five fins ride…I go from riding my bonzer in bigger surf to my twinzer for smaller stuff. going form the Bonzer (holding power) to the twinzer(loose loose drive) it take few ride to get ajusted to doing hard turn without spinning out…

8

Just a comment, not all 5 fins are alike, in fact the number of permutations is probably ridiculously high. I had a 5 fin Ace board that had 3 very small (2 inch) fins in a thruster-type layout, combined with 2 larger (5 inch) fins in twin-fin position. It worked great… I will try to get a picture of it to clarify…

9

I have 2 custom George Ku C5’s I’m getting rid of…

They have the little canards on the outside of the side fins and are I believe a rip off of Herb Spitzer’s superchargers (According to Herb) Rusty stole it from him and didn’t get it right… Kind of like how George claims Rusty sole his template from Laminations to create his “Desert Island” series.

Anyway they tend to length your turns and stiffen the feel of the outline a bit.

They will blast like rocketships if you have powerful waves like on the northshore which is probably why George puts them on his boards. Way too stiff for anything else but a confidence booster in big powerful stuff.

The canards are typically pointed more straight ahead than the side fins to smooth out the water flow around the side fins.

I’ve also recently seem larger canards placed just on the inside of the outside fins on some new Local Motion boards that are pretty interesting. The guy that owns it loves it and it does seem to make a difference in his surfing.

Personally I think these new four fin setups like the one Jeff Clark is using on his Mavericks guns are the way to go. Sides canted in backs pointed straight ahead and double foiled. Just like those you see on these fishes coming out of San Diego. I have this setup on my Gemini and it definitely “feels” more positive and faster than a twin, single or thruster. Could be just a mental mirage though…

As far as the Morgan Converter, I’ve seen several ridden without any significant difference from a regular board but they were longboards. The HIC team rider who I ordered my Alexander Gemini from said he tried a short board and found it real sluggish compared to the Gemini which is interesting since the converter is Steve’s interpretation of Jeff’s Gemini design. The team rider actually advised me not to consider Converter and go with the Gemini since he rode both as well as a Arakawa Soloman.

REX has his own severe hourglass venturi bottom he puts on his boards like the infamous picklefork but according to the guys that have them, you have to keep moving them around or they will bog down.

That’s as far as I know on these…

5 fin Bonzers on the other hand are a completely different story. Think of a single fin rocketship and you’ll get a general idea.

10

Mahalo all!!!

I was thinking about doing a short board with the 5 fin and an hour glass styled bottom (I will have to look around to see if I can find some info on the gemini)- Thanks for all the information it really helped to clarify some of the questions that I was having.

Joe~

11

We’ve met a lot of success with a combination of the Malcom’s bottom shape, Rich Pavel’s side channels and Mike Eaton’s flex fin ideas. By messing with rockers, rail shapes, and chines, it only took a few prototypes before we got a board that works well in chop and can handle power. I am amazed at the broad range and speed generated by these boards. We had a trip to the Maldives in September and there were 4 of these boards on the trip. The wave size was larger than normal for the area and they worked beautifully. The one pictured below is 6’4" x 19-1/4" x 2-3/8". We are using Polycarbonate for the ventral fins as it turns out that flex and spring-back is a key element. Also essential is the hour-glass shape of the bottom contour; it works most effectively with curve in it. If you wish to PM me, I can try and give any details so you have a headstart on working out the bugs…

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12

…archive,“Superchargers”

…Herb

a basic tri or twin fin is obsolete in my opinion.Herb

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By-the-way,

Rumors has it from a good source, Rusty is discontinuing the C-5 series.Herb

14

I’ve got boards here with 1, 2, 2+1, 3, 4 and 5 fins (in order: harbour spherical revolver single, vintage electric duck twin fin, harbour simms longboard, 6’3" thruster, old merrick quad, and bonzer 5 by malcolm) so I figured my next board will have to have six, ha!

And then there is the tunnel fin of course. Gotta get one of those in my quiver…

15

there are a fair number of six fin boards around here. No joke. I haven’t ridden one so no opinion on how they work.

16

Keith,

I had an Ace five fin on a swallow tail. Loved it. Surfed it during Spring and Summers until it was roached. Gave it away and ordered another swallow from Ace. He told me he was not doing the five fin and was doing six fins with no concaves. Maybe the glassers and sanders complained. The board worked well, but not like the five. I thought it worked better when I removed the two back fins and rode it as a ‘quad’ or ‘twinzer’. I’d like to get that five fin back and try to build my own. mike

17

I am sorry it took me so long to getting around to going through the archives to get a handle on super chargers (Bert’s specifically); I still dont totally understand but I think I have the gist. I am not sure if Bert was prompting me to ask this question or not, but here it goes:

What is the differences between those little superchargers and the larger 5 fin setups? Performance? Function?

   side-questions: Bert do you still put these on all your OWN boards? Was the fact that they were designed to be glued on so they could be taken off and moved?

From one who is just starting out on surfboard design and construction- Mahalo to all who share their experience, wisdom, and opinions here on Swaylock’s!

Joe~

18

Bert? Do you mean Herb?

…Anyway look this title up here in the archives; " C-5 vs. Superchargers" or visa-versa.That will open up a whole new Pandora’s Box for you to rumminate over.

…I molded the glue-ons to be: 1) More versatile,different boards,placements,attitudes,functions,lack of moving parts to zero,etc,etc.2) To be “dependant free” from any boxes.(even though Tom@Daum/Dennis has come up with a pirate box that should cause shockwaves in the industry).THIS GLUE-ON DESIGN WAS INSPIRED FROM Con Colburn’s CON-trol fins.A peel and stick mini stablizer that I used back in the 70s ,w/ great success.

…I still mold these G.O.-SCs in limited #s.I stopped using them last spring due to lack of performance qualities I was so use to in the T-SCs.The G.O.s tended to flex at the base,(actually the fiberglass on the board was the weak point).This flex detours some of the main qualities in the little drafters design.Another words "Stiff " is it !I still have people that prefer G.O.-Superchargers over the T-series due to the basic fact that you can put them anywhere with just about anything adhesive.The flex factor is not enough to / or they are not sensitive enough to feel the difference between the two.

…I use my Superchargers in all conditions,sizes,board types,and with amazingly positive results.Almost on a daily basis ,I am literally ,“BLOWN AWAY” at the different avenues it opens up for me…

…It made the impossible ,Possible for me…

…Example: Sub standard waves,but clean @ the 05 Surfline contest this year…I was in a heat that… well, let’s hear a quote from Chas Wickwire while in the water during a lull(most of the heat was a lull),“Wow,what a brutal heat,huh Herb”,.This was in the final minutes of our heat the Masters Shortboards, 30 year olds group(yeah,I went down a few years…like 20).In the last 3 or 4 minutes of my heat I caught the wave of my heat if not one of the best for the day.A head high wave that was slowed by a rapid incoming tide and moderate offshores.I had it dead to rights and then it backed off !!!I COULDNOT MISS THIS ONE!!! SO I SHOVELED MY SUPERCHARGED HYBRID FISH OVER THE FALLS W/ THE PITCHING LIP ,WHILE SLIDING OVER THE TOP OF THE PITCH ,I ANGLED OFF TO THE EDGE OF THE RIGHTHANDER’S LIP AND AIR/FREEFALLED THE TAKEOFF !!! Right into the pocket under the shadow,I contnued to tear-a-part the rest of the wave all the way to the beach…I only caught two waves, enough to qualify,Chas only got two,and Chad Wells only got two.

…Chas and Chad got 1st, and 2nd. three riders advanced to the finals.,Myself they gave me 5th at first,then later changed it to 4th because so many OTHER people bitched about the obvious favortism…

…How come,… when the other heat results are posted = the results are posted clean and not SCRIBBLED OUT OR written over,but in my heats(this in all the years since 99’)My heat results/column, looks like someone let there 2yr old doodle on the heatsheet results,Kinda obvious isn’t it???Herb.

…GOTITGOOD…

19

Herb- I am so sorry about that!!! my mind wanders especially when following several different threads at once and trying to catch up on 30+ years of developement of an industry. I think that I understand much more about the fin set-ups (5 vs. superchargers), thank you. Since it appears that you are no longer producing them does is anyone offering what you would consider a comperable product? Quick side question (I know I do a lot of these and I am sorry about that) what type of molding processes do you use- I know nothing about the subject, yet, just looking for a place to start looking.

Thank you again Herb.

Joe~

20

Oh, what are these pirate boxes you mentioned??? A new/altered/improved removeably fin system?

Joe~