Advice on my first board build

[Dallas_K]

Hello everyone,

My name is Dallas and it’s my first time posting here, though I’ve been reading for a few days now. I’m a relatively beginner surfer looking to build my own board and I could use all the advice I can get! I’m 6’2" tall, size 11 shoe, weigh about 220lbs (though I’m looking to take that down to around 200) and am a little out of shape, but surfing is helping that.

I’ve been riding an 8 foot soft top for the past few months and it’s great fun, but I’m looking for a new challenge, something more maneuverable but still not too hard to paddle, and honestly something that looks cool haha. From all my research I’m thinking that a fish is probably what I need. Shortboard but pretty stable and easy to paddle, bouyant enough to float my weight. I’m open to suggestions here though, is a fish the right move for me down from an 8 footer? I have snowboarded and skateboarded all my life (34 years old now) so I have the feeling and idea of board sports in my head and have progressed pretty quickly with surfing. Got the paddle and pop up pretty consistent now, working on turns.

Well, all that aside, I thought instead of just going out and buying a new board (can’t really justify the price right now anyhow) I’d try to make one myself. Watched dozens of hours of youtube, read a ton of threads here and on green light surf supply info, and I think I’m gonna go for it. Here are the issues:

1: I’m currently in Barcelona Spain, not a great place to surf, but there are waves. Anyhow, the only foam I can find is XPS sheets that are not thick enough so I will need to glue them together. No problem, but any suggestions on what type of glue to use? I’ve heard gorilla but I can’t for the life of me find that here in Spain, any euro boad makers have a suggestion of XPS compatible glue I can get over here? I know I can just order a pre assembled blank but the shipping to Barcelona from all the places I have found is not possible or outrageously expensive.

2: I’m not sure of dimensions. I am thinking something like 6’2" - 6’6" but I just have no idea here. Any suggestions would be much appreciated. I want the board to be stable and easy paddling, but still manouverable since that is what I am trying to learn right now. Also, any advice for templates? Or would someone be willing to share a template with me? I considered buying green light’s template pack, but I thought I would ask around first and see if there is something people suggest.

3: Resin. I know I need to use epoxy resin on an XPS board, but I am wondering if any old epoxy resin will work, or if I should buy the specific surfboard resin from a surf supply shop. I’ve heard that regular resin will tint ugly yellow, I don’t really care about that, since I’m thinking of painting the board black anyhow, but what I’m more concerned with is strength. Is surf board specific resin stronger, and better all around, or just more clear? Does it matter if I use hardware store epoxy resin?

4: Stringers. I was originallly only considering doing a stringer but then I read a bunch of stuff about stringerless boards and it seems like with a fish, and for a beginner like me, a stringer is only going to add rigidity and not really strength. Should I go stringerless? It would be a lot less work to go stringerless, and I honestly like the idea of it better, but will I just end up breaking my board if I don’t put a stringer?

 

Well I think that’s it for now. Apologies for the ridiculously long post, but looking through other posts I figured I would give as much info as possible. Thanks for any help or advice you can send my way!!

Dallas

[tenderloin_tom]

For #2 check out blending curves. Maybe a wide /thick fish. Also make some fins while your at it.

https://www.blendingcurves.com/

 

keep us posted with photos and updates

 

good luck /have fun

Tom

 

 

[jrandy]

Hi Dallas-

I would price out getting a DIY kit from one of the EU vendors. It will cost  more but having a good set of materials will make the project more enjoyable.

Surfboard foam, glass, and resins are superior to hardware store varieties for ease of use and good looks.

Black is not a good color for EPS/XPS boards, it is just asking for delam or foam failure due to overheating.

[gdaddy]

You are larger than average in stature, so (in my opinion) you should be taking that into consideration in your board designs.  

If you’re a relative beginner of size and you’re looking to come down off an 8-ft soft top then the next step in your progression is a midsized funboard or egg with a moderate rocker, not a fish.    Fishes are a niche design - a specialty board that people normally add to an existing quiver to handle certain specific conditions.   

Fishies are flat and wide, particularly in the tail area.  That’s not the kind of combo that’s conducive to your progression when you’re still trying to learn how to get your waves, how to make the drop more reliably and without getting pitched,  and how to lay in a proper turn.   At your skill level a fish will only slow your development.   High performance surfers commonly avoid fishes altogether because the design surfs “flatter”  and requires a different approach that builds habits those surfers are trying to avoid.   I’m not saying you should never surf a fish - I think you should; just not yet.   Maybe next year, after you get more comfortable with the shorter lengths.  

By contrast, an egg of similar volume will be a lot more forgiving and easier to handle, especially going backside.  You can readily surf an egg in knee high slop all the way up into overhead conditions so long as you don’t go too extreme on any of the features.  Or you can tweak the design to specialize more in smaller conditions or larger conditions.  

Some people like the Blending Curves website for some reason; and that’s fine.  Of their 3 templates the Egg C design is probably the most versatile.  It is the midpoint between the longboards and performance shortboards.   The Egg B is okay, too, and you can size it up with whatever length you want.   For a relative novice at 200# - 220# you probably want to aim for a volume of at least 45 liters, which is easily doable in the 7-0 x 21.5 x 2.75" (thick) dimensions - just use a moderate rocker and foil.   Skip the thruster for now and either go with a quad or a 2+1.  The reason for that is because it takes a much higher skill level to do the same thing with a thruster setup than it takes on a 2+1 or quad.  You have to get your rear foot all the way back over that rear fin and actively work the thruster fin cluster, whereas the 2+1s and quads will do more on their own without as much input.  The only people who should be surfing a thruster on a midlength or longboard are surfers who already have the skill to do that well on a shortboard.   Which is not most people. 

For example, I’ve been surfing for many years and I’d never choose a thruster because there’s nothing I can do on a thruster (in the local conditions we have here) that I can’t do more easily and with less effort on a quad.    I shape for family and friends, all of them with at least 15 years experience.   In every single case, when I have introduced them to a quad setup they have dumped the thrusters - for good.  Not one of them surfs a thruster these days.   Truth to tell, on a midlength I would only surf either a singlefin or a 2+1, but that’s because I only surf those lengths in small conditions.   

At your weight and skill level going from an 8-0 softtop to a 7-0 egg will still require significant adjustments to your paddling, wave judgment and timing,  but should still be doable with some effort.  Trying to go from an 8-0 to a 6-2 or a 6-6 would be much more difficult, and especially so if it’s a fish design. 

Just my opinion.  Others may disagree.  

 

[gdaddy]

As for how to do a stringerlass blank from square foam stock, you can cut the blank in “planks” using the rocker outline, and glue them together.  If you’re using 3" thick panels then each plank will be 3" wide.   One of our regulars does this using scrap foam and his boards come out beautifully.  

 

 

[johnmellor]

Hi Dallas - 

I can appreciate where you are coming from.  Soft Tops are a good way to get started but it may be time to move on.  All advice has been spot on.  I might add that you’d be better making little steps than a great big one.  With a deep twin tail a fish is going to be tricky to glass anyway.

I’d suggest establishing a baseline as far as dimensions - nose width, tail width, wide point position and thickness at these same points will give you a much better idea on overall size and volume of the current board.  I’d recommend you stay fairly close to the same volume.  With wide point back (relatively speaking), some extra curve in the tail hips, and a boosted tail rocker, you can easily improve performance.  By pulling in the nose and giving it a more pointy appearance, you will possibly get the cooler look you’re after.  A tongue depressor nose with a 2" thick beak is kind of a give away.  Thin the nose and give it a little flip.  It’ll drive women mad…

Seriously - you might even think about adding a bit of width to the tail.  In the neighborhood of 16"-17" will add planing efficiency. By moving your standing position aft and adding those curves already mentioned, you should be pretty stoked on the performance improvements.

There are several professional manufacturers who do the sort of thing I’m talking about… Bruce Fowler has a wide tail model you should check out for starters.  

You don’t want to make the same mistake so many have and go too short too fast.  At your size, a little extra volume will pay off in day to day surfing.

[Dallas_K]

Hey everyone,

Thanks so much for all your replies and detailed advice! I heard about blending curves the other night and checked them out, seems like a good place to start. I’m now reconsidering the fish design but I’m still not sure. Waves here rarely get bigger than waist high and when they do I’m usually not out there because it’s pretty hectic and super crowded. I suppose my original idea that for a guy my size I’ll need quite a bit of volume was right, thanks for confirming that one haha.

So yesterday I got all excited and kinda jumped the gun. Went out to the hardware store and bought some foam (three sheets I will need to laminate together) sanding supplies (bunch of paper of different grits and a rasp) cheap saw, some wood to build a stand and some glue. I know I’m getting ahead of myself but I’m impulsive with projects. I’ll post some photos soon, and I’m gonna make a video of it as well cause I’m a photographer and have the gear, plus I think it will be funny to build a board in my little Barcelona apartment.

The issue I have now is that my glue doesnt seem to be drying, which was my main concern with XPS foam. I bought this gooey contact cement and did a little 4" X 4" test patch. Sanded and coated both sides, set them together and weighed them down, left to dry overnight… and the glue is still tacky and pulling apart. At this point I’m pretty committed to the DIY route so my question is: Does anyone have experience with gluing XPS? Or can you point me to a thread about that issue? I think I need a polyurethane glue, but I’m not sure all of them will work? As always, any help will be much appreciated! Thank you all so much for your helpful replies

 

Dallas

[jago25_98]

Ah. Jumped the gun.

Super77 spray didn’t eat the foam when I tested it like they say it does here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DIY/comments/7q8mpf/gluing_xps_foam_to_itself/

…but it didn’t hold very well. 

I used No more nails once. It worked but leave a gap at the edges to help sanding

[gdaddy]

One of the big challenges with using XPS is getting adhesion.  The structure of the foam itself is the thing.  The same closed-cell structure of the foam that tends to not absorb water and mositure very much also makes it difficult to get it to absorb resins or glues.    Popular strategies to get it more adhesion during glassing include cutting grooves or roughening the surface with coarse grit sandpaper or putting shallow holes in it (like how they aererate a field in order to help it obsorb irrigation or planting).    This basically increases the surface area and the amount of glue or resin that’s being used to adhere the two surfaces, whether the 2nd surface is another piece of foam otr it’s a laminate of some sort.  

The other caveat about using XPS is that you can’t allow the finished board to get any hotter than it takes to melt the wax on your deck.  XPS will offgas at relatively low temperatures and literally blow delaminations into the glassing.    I only built about a dozen boards out of XPS, and they all surfed quite nicely.  But ultimately, all but one of them ended up with delams and died prematurely due to getting overheated.  The only one that didn’t was well-cared for because it’s surfer kept it in a bag and never let it get too hot.   So it can be done, but you will need to be very mindful about never exposing the board to too much heat.  If a room or the interior of a car is too warm for your comfort then it’s also too warm for a board built with XPS foam.    

[gdaddy]

As for other types of designs that can work for bigger guys, I recently built a board for a 260# surfer (way bigger than you) that he was taking on a surf trip.   

6-10 x 24 x 3.5", about 66 liters of volume, which is far in excess of what you would need.      However, this board was not aimed at small conditions; it was aimed at shoulder to overhead conditions.    That board actually has a lot more volume than the 8-0 mini-longboard that I surf (~58 liters).    Much more volume than you would need.   

If you look at the Fowler designs I referenced above you can see that I shamelessly stole some of his design elements for this one, although I also did a couple things differently (which I stole off a couple other board builders who are also much smarter than me).   

The point is, there are lots of combinations that you can put together if you can get an idea of what you want to do and what the various design elements are doing.  

[Dallas_K]

Oh boy, I’m really off to good start here, haha. Worst type of foam, needing three layers laminated together (cause that was the thickest I could find), and to boot, I’m trying to keep this on a super budget. I want a black board, which will probably delam, and I’m using XPS, which will also probably delam haha. Well let’s see how it goes. I built my board shaping stand today, what a disaster. I swear finding proper material in Europe is next to impossible, all the sizes are just weird and goofy and nothing makes sense. I was going to get 2x4s for the stand obviously, but the hardware store only had wacky sizes so I (not thinking) went with something like 1x2s (or as near to them as I could get). Well hindsight is 20/20. 

I mean, I got the stand built… mostly, but boy is it ugly and wobbly. Just screws on screws on screws and cracked skinny wood all over the show, it’s bad. I figure I can reinforce it with some cross supports and it will hold up, but I need to turn my brain on before getting supplies from now on. I guess I was just excited. Still researching the glue thing, but I think I might have found a solution. I’m gonna go with a generic Polyurethane glue from the shop, it seems like that is my best route. Also, I think I’m gonna scrap the color, I don’t need to complicate this any more than it needs to be.

Check out a few shots of my hilariously bad “shaping stand”. Gonna scrounge some stronger wood to reinforce it I think, or just rebuild it with proper materials.

https://swaylocks7stage.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/Shaping%20Stand-1.jpg(image larger than 8 MB)

https://swaylocks7stage.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/Shaping%20Stand-2.jpg(image larger than 8 MB)

https://swaylocks7stage.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/Shaping%20Stand-3.jpg(image larger than 8 MB)

https://swaylocks7stage.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/Shaping%20Stand-4.jpg(image larger than 8 MB)

[gdaddy]

Just for visual references, the design johnmellor is referring to is made by one of our regulars  - Bruce Fowler.   He has a big long thread on various designs he does wherein he goes into great detail about what he’s doing and why.  

Deadshaper: Fountain of Youth Surfboards

I’m a huge fan of what Mr Fowler has been doing and (among others) he’s been a big influence on the boards I build.  When he presents a design explanation I pay attention because he not only knows what he’s talking about he is also really good at explaining things, which is a separate skill of it’s own.   Below is a pic of one of his models that I think johnmellor is referring to above.  That general board design is real versatile across a wide range of conditions and can also be tweaked to be oriented toward either end of the spectrum - more oriented toward smaller conditions or more oriented toward faster and larger conditions.   

[Dallas_K]

Man thanks so much for all your advice and input, I really appreciate it. I have no clue what I’m doing here so it’s great to hear the voice of someone really experienced

[gdaddy]

If you’re trying to build a board in your apartment then it doesn’t make much sense to get carried away with building stands - they’re just going to get in your way when you’re not using them.  

Consider this:  If you have a couple of dining room chairs you can face them toward each other and have a stable base.   Take a couple of lengths of the wood you’re using and use some cord or light rope to lash them to the top of the chair back and the  lower support between the legs.   Obviously, you’ll want to cover them with some plastic sheeting so you don’t get foam dust or resin on them, but this ought to work for a 1-time use.  Then when you’re done you can disassemble the rig and it won’t be in your way.  

[gdaddy]

Next - if you’re new to glassing then skip the color altogether.   Mixing epoxy requires precision in the ratio between the amount of Part A and Part B.    And adding a 3rd element to the mix will also require some precision between batches in order to get the consistent colors.  Not to mention the point that the 3rd element you’re using might actually weaken the resin mix.    There’s just too much going on for a novice glasser.     In the beginning and until you figure everything out, just go clear in the glassing.   If you don’t like the color of the foam you’re using then paint the board after you’re done with it.   

And don’t even consider using dark colors with XPS blanks because you’re just creating a heat sink that will kill your board in the first 20 minutes that you have it out on a hot summer day.  

 

[sharkcountry]

I’ve made a bunch of boards using XPS foam. You need to use Epoxy resin. If the foam is thin sheets, I prefer cutting rockered slices and gluing them together. I use a 1" band of foam to make the outer edge after cutting the outline shy of that outer band. Use a foaming polyurethane glue. You won’t need a stringer, the glue will give it a little extra strength. Keep the foam fairly rough for glassing, just 60 grit for the finish. You can make simple sanding tools. The blue board as made from a single slab of 3" XPS, it’s there to show what it looks like with just clear resin. The green board shows the glue lines.

 

[gdaddy]

^^^^^  the OP needs to take note:  That’s how you do it.  Gluing 3 slabs together and thinking you’ll be able to plane a usable rocker in is a non-starter for a novice.   Few pro shapers would even attempt it.  

[reverb]

…hello man; do not know where to start or if better to skip this thread…well, first thing you are a brave starter; all what you decided to do is very complicated to do for the first time.

You want advice on your first shape but now you are taking about the U racks…

I can write down plenty of stuff and no no s about what you are starting but better to say only go for it!

Regarding the chairs or other weird stuff; I used a lot cause I started as a kid, with very little extra money to buy electric tools etc.

I remember to do the laminations with those ceramic tiles that are used in the edges; its have one rounded edge so I used it to not damage the foam. I only had one fluorescent tube, so I flipped the shape several times to have the right shade; man, was difficult to obtain the rails simetry but I think that helped to develop and “eye” for the right curves.

I try to say that you would learn a lot about this labor, so if you like to make things with your hands, you will be right.

Regarding the shape: please do not forget that the templates are the most important factor; if you have a not so smooth outline, you will pick up these errors in the glass and finish…and of course on the waves.

 

–Regarding the U racks: the cheapest and easiest if you do not want to use the chairs (I used the chairs only to sand the glass-those old scissors chairs that the back is straight-) is to use two big empty buckets of wall paint or similar; sand, small pebbles and cement; 4 sticks around 10cm diameter, 2 stripes of EVA (buy the thicker one -1/4"-you can use 2 stripes of leather etc) a bit of cushion foam; nylon or PVC film and some small nails.

Put two sticks per bucket at the distance equivalent to the U that you want (use the PVC film wrapped on them to prevent them from the water); fill with the concrete mix; let it dry couple of days then put the EVA strips as the U (nailed on each stick to form the U) then the cushioning foam glued on top.

The EVA 1/4 as a U can hold a longboard pretty well.

[gdaddy]

Agree completely - if the OP plans on shaping and glassing several boards then spending some money and building a pair of reusable racks makes more sense.    I started out with the 5-gallon bucket with concrete and 2x4s because I had the room for them in my garage and I knew I’d be doing a lot of repairs.   .  

[Dallas_K]

I gotta say, thank you all for your encouraging advice and support, even if it seems the general consensus is that I’m in way over my head and pretty much asking for a disaster haha. I tend to jump in head first in most of the projects that I do, and to be honest, it usually works out, but I’m glad I’ve been asking questions here.

The project has been on hold the past week since my wife kindly reminded me that since I have all this time to build a surfboard, I never did finish painting the hallway and doors that she asked me to do a while ago… hahaha. So been working on the house, and surfing a day or two also!

Anyhow.

I didn’t even think of the idea of cutting rockered strips from the foam, I just assumed I would glue the slabs together and try to work the rocker in, but thinking of it now, that seems like I will have very little room to play with. I will definitely be going with the rockered slices and gluing them together.

I’m gonna go stringerless as it seems like it will be fine, and less work to be honest. Either way it’s my first attempt so I’m just gonna go for it.

Thanks so much for the chair/bucket suggestions! Brilliant little things that I never would have thought of on my own, seriously, that is a huge step forward for me knowing I actually have stands sitting right in front of me.

I’ve decided to scrap the color. It sounds like it’s a pain and possibly can create several big problems for me so I’ll just go clear epoxy. I’m not too worried about delamination as there are no waves here in the summer anyhow, the season is October to March, so I’m never surfing too warm days, but I don’t want the hassle right now.

As far as shape goes, one of the reasons I thought gluing the slabs together and planing in the rocker was because my original idea was to go for a fish with not a lot of rocker anyhow. People here are saying an egg is probably better for me, but I’m still undecided. I was out today and I’m really getting the hang of turns, and I feel like I just want to go for the fish. I’m not sure, this is probably my most conflicted issue right now.

As far as shaping goes, I’ll find out once I actually get into it, but I do have about four years experience with autobody repair, which involved a lot of line and curve matching work, sanding, finishing, getting things smooth and looking right. Not sure if it will actually translate to shaping a board, but I think there might be some similarities there. I’m still reading and watching videos about it so hopefully by the time I get there I’ll be as prepared as I can be.

I’m still trying to find a glue that will work. I’ve done a few experiments and all have failed. I might just end up going with an epoxy glue.

As always, thank so much for all the advice, tips, pictures and cautious encouragement, I really appreciate it!! Hopefully next post will have some actual progress.