Americans Shaping Strong, Resilient, Surfboard Foam

                                       Preface 

After you have read the piece below you might be wondering where I am coming from re my attitude to the American surfboard industry. This may help.

I have still have California friends I first met in 1960. I was involved with an American surfboard maker, Gordon & Smith, for some years in the mid to late 1960’s.

When I opened my small Palm Beach, NSW factory in 1964 I used Clark Foam exclusively, made by Mike Johnson in Maroochydore, Queensland.

I bought my first Clark Foam gun blank from Bosco Burns at Haleiwa in 1968. I shaped and glassed it on two chairs in a beach front Pupukea house so I could ride Sunset.

My company imports and sells American made products, and has done so since 1972. I have sold JPS fiberglass cloths for more than 30 years.

I did have a problem with (some, not all) travelling American shapers. The problem ones were those who demanded the weakest, fastest cutting surfboard foam they could get, when stronger, higher performing in house foams were available. They had no consideration for the end user, only their pocket.

People like to blame Gordon Clark for providing a weaker, softer product but it was the shapers who encouraged him to go that way, they did not have to buy it! Stronger foam was always available, sometimes at lower prices, but there were only a few like Craig Sugihara (Town & Country) on Oahu who made the effort to get it. Gordon’s large mould range and great service kept most people happy.

I first shaped balsa in 1958, EPS in 1959, then PU in 1960. I have used a great variety of cutting tools to handle these surfboard cores. For modern foams I am especially impressed with grit barrel planers. Shaping becomes more like sculpting.

If an American shaper can get something out of the piece below, I will be very happy for him/her, whatever foam blank he/she chooses.

               Shaping strong, resilient foam - long version.

Over many years, in countries outside the U.S., surfboard performance and durability have been major issues, before price. This made blank choice a primary consideration.

Because there was choice, shapers would test all available foam for end performance and it was invariably the surfers who decided what rode the best and held up the longest.

In a sense, events of the last year have forced American shapers to play catch up.

American shapers now have to/are able to choose from at least twenty new blank makers.

Although Surfblanks foams are new to many American shapers, Surfblanks is not a new blank maker, Surfblanks Australia has been around since 1968.

Surfblanks micro cellular foams (inc Teccel = Surfblanks Brazil) have been designed for the surfer - not the shaper!

The foam’s resilient molecular structure gives life (spring and memory) to very light boards. Surfers immediately pick up on the liveliness (responsive feel) of a core material. This liveliness can be compared to that found in new snow skis, snowboards or a springy skateboard.

Composite makers spend endless time and dollars looking for the spring that feels alive under the surfer’s feet.

Surfblanks achieved it (spring) decades ago without the massive cost addition of composite skins to protect the core. Light density Surfblanks foams glassed with good cloth and epoxy resin make a very impressive product - if you want to go that far.

A basic glass job of warp weave cloth and well cured polyester resin (UV catalysed especially) will make a very functional shell for Surfblanks foams.

It is the American shaper who will have to get his/her head around how to deal with Surfblanks resilient foam structure. Long time shapers, especially those who once shaped balsa have no problem adjusting to Surfblanks foams. Those who struggle are the new generation, and they may even be ‘cutting edge’ shapers. It is so because they may have never known anything else but Clark Foam. Totally understandable!

There was a time when shapers believed you did not need a strong blank for US mainland waves since they were generally considered as small and weak. This has changed for at least two reasons.

Shortboarders are now punishing their equipment with aerial surfing.

Northern Californian surfers are now riding powerful waves like Mavericks.

Shapers outside America and around the world have been using Surfblanks foam for decades.

They know that slow revving planers with dull blades, taking deep, fast cuts will never do the job. Yes you can do it with a sharp bladed Skill with shallower, slower passes.

A spiral, grit barrel Hitachi/Makita is ideal - you have access to them in America.

Grit barrels require no sharpening - ever! And they will cut finer (3 - 6mm) stringers.

There is no resin in a Surfblanks glue up to gum up a grit barrel - there is only foam and wood.

For those who are looking for a shaping machine with no cutting limitations - the APS3000 has been exceptional for all PU foams, EPS and balsa. The cutting head is not inhibited by any known, modern surfboard material. With normal use the APS3000 cutting head never needs resharpening, nor replacing.

It is common knowledge in the broader (world wide) surfing industry that the easier a blank is to shape, the poorer its compression (dents) and tensile (snaps) strengths will be.

Surfblanks has the technology to produce a ‘lazy shapers foam’. However it would require the corruption of a product that has been developed specifically for the enjoyment of surfers, and it won’t happen!

I understand that there will be shapers who will never shape Surfblanks, for whatever reasons you can think of.

I also understand that given a choice, surfers will choose to ride Surfblanks. It is the surfers I am interested in! Their response is evident in this and other forums.

Alternative, fast shaping, dead core, 1970’s style, soft foams are readily available if the shaping transition is too painful.

Aloha Midget:

This was very well presented and I could not agree more. I have been shaping Surfblanks here in Hawaii for the last 4 or 5 months and love them. A lot of shapers complain that they are harder to shape and take longer, I found the exact opposite to be true as I easily shaved an hour off my shaping time using a Surfblank over a Clark Foam blank.

My experience has been that the reason for this is the consistency of the foam and the hardness.

So I for one am very grateful that this alternative has shown up on our shores and I could not be more pleased with these blanks.

But the part I really agree with you about is the end user experience, people I have made boards for using your blanks are blown away by the fact that the decks do not instantly dent the first time the board is surfed. In fact I have been able to reduce my laminate schedule due to the excellent hardness of the blanks.

So I think you are right on the money that shapers should be more concerned with the end user experience than making life easier for themselves!

Mahalo for a thoughtful letter!

-Robin

Can you use slow passes with a wood planer (like a bosch or that expensive festool one)?

Of course the grit barrel equipped planer is handy . . .

I wonder what is the strength comparison of surfblanks to EPS foam?

Yes! You can I actually like to use a block plane a lot and when I’m shaping this foam my shaping room looks like a woodworking shop except all the shavings are white.

Oops! just reread your message and realized that you were asking about a power wood planer, I’m sure any planer could be used if it had a sharp blade. I have tried both my barrel and regular blades and they both work well, but the barrel is a lot better. Oh! and also a lot quieter!

And yes the carbide barrel planer is a dream on this foam, but is also great on an EPS blank. In fact I wouldn’t even consider shaping an EPS blank without one of these barrels!

I don’t know what the strength characteristics are between a Surfblank and and EPS, but I just shaped an EPS blank and there is no comparison in terms of hardness, the EPS blank was continually getting compression dents from just handling it, while I have yet to put a compression dent in a Surfblank while working with one!

But EPS is just a different technology and has its place!

What I’m looking forward to is building some epoxy boards with a Surfblank core so I can get the kind of precision shaping I like but with a higher strength and lighter skin.

-Robin

Hi Midget,

who in So. Cal. is retailing Surfblanks?

thanks!

Dear surf4fins

As yet nobody retailing in SoCal.

Makers who have them may/may not part with a few?

Doc Lausch - Sharp Eye - Xanadu have Teccel (Surfblanks Brazil)

Hobie and Lost have Surfblanks Sth Africa

Sharp Eye (Marcio Zhouvi) will w/sale and retail (2000 blanks) out of San Clemente as of October - also offering machine service.

Chris Russell - - has/getting stock - San Diego

Matt Ambrose - - 2000 in stock - San Fran

Surfblanks America - - making now!!!

Regards

Midget

Confirming - Chris Russell will have 400 Surfblanks Australia in two weeks.

Chris Russell -

MF

Miget I know you are a legend still and you have a lot of experience for sure. I respect your option, however your plug for the APS300 CNC shaping machine is a bit bias? Did your know that Americans make very good CNC Machines? For one they are more solid with less vibration. Dust Collect is very poor with the Australian Machine. The cutter heads are available for any CNC Router motor as well. So the cutter head is a mute point. Concerning your foam I have not yet shaped one. I would love to try one. Harold Walker who also has been making foam for a long is coming out with a new formula. Each week the foam gets better and better. When you speak about lively foam. Have you tried XPS? I have made boards for a few ASP Touring Professionals and they say that XPS is very livey. Plus you don’t get the pressure dents like PU. The closing of Clark foam has opened up a whole new dimention. Yes, you are right that American Shapers tend to use what is easier for them. All shapers regardless of what country you are from should think of the end user first. In defense of your product I have heard postive comments and would love to cut one on my machine as well as hand shape one.

Kind regards,

Dear Surfding

I understand you are committed to your new 3DM, I hope it works well for you. There are three 3DMs in Australia that I know of.

You may want to see a pic of an APS3000 cutting head - then you may not think it suitable for a CNC router motor. It is very, very different!

XPS came and went very quickly in Australia about 10 years ago. Once again if it works for you - then it’s good.

I have spoken to Harold Walker in the past - I often see posts praising his product.

Hap Jacobs made me a beautiful triple stringer board in the early/mid 1960’s

from a Walker blank.

Regards

Midget

hello Surfding,

your post surprises me a little as I regarded your comments to date quite to the point and interesting to read. first I would like to undermine your machines american origin a bit, even I do not believe in closed markets.

your machine is built out of many raw materials, steel and aluminium that very likely started life here in australian mines. we sell the stuff -for example to China-, where they process the raw material and sell it as processed material to countries like America. all the linear gear on your machine are of asian origin, on the one I saw those parts came from China/Korea. and I bet a sixpack that most of the electronic parts are made in cheap labor countries too, not in America.

then we have to keep in mind that a big share of the proceeds of your machine will go to the software developer in France.

Contrary to your comments, the APS3000 has a very “american” background. important components like the controller, motors and drives, parts of the linear gear as well as the software come from your country. so no “american” spirited customer needs to worrie about that.

you also comment about the solidity of the machine and you use the words “less vibration”. see, this is sales rep crap so we should just leave that to those. You never saw the APS3000 in action, didn’t you. the giveaway is your comment about the dust handling and the cutter; not a smart comment which you would agree after seeing one. and as I have patent protection on the cutter I doubt you could just go and buy one. I would like to watch you mount it on your router but I am a person who would invite you for a beer afterwards. we all make mistakes…

but now to the point of what Midget tries to say (so I think). his foam is very hard and at the same time very resilient. not the easiest to shape or to cut if you insist in using the same tools as with “yesterdays” foam. and machining with" router technology" has its limits and will create slight problems. Midgets blanks need more efficient tools to be shaped by hand or machine, the old sandpaper that happily worked on a Clark blank will not do the job here. but the results certainly outweigh the extra effort.

I am shipping six machines to America within the next week and I will come over personally to install some of them. I will be close to Huntington Beach so that would be a great opportunity for you to see the APS3000 in action and discuss “vibration” and “dust handling”. we could have a chat and a beer and a laugh about the salesmen crap and I could see the wonders you create with the XPS. interested?? by the way, we call her APS3000, not APS300…

miki, on the contrary, there benefits to the router cutter. is it possible to get deep swallow fish detail with the aps 3000?. fwiw, some of the the best cnc machines and controllers and machine components are made in asia.



hello Oak,

point taken. the APS3000 can at this stage not do the complete swallow.

I did not comment on asian parts relative to their quality as I am well aware of the quality that can come from there. my wife is asian I would never risk to say a bad word. …

did you ever cut one of Midget’s blanks on your machine and how did it come out? the one on the photos is certainly not a Surfblanks.

America is now an open market for blanks and many things are developing. the goal is to be able to supply a good quality product for an acceptable price, something that works for the customer even if it means some tools need sharpening…

yes, I have cut the surfblanks, which I think is the same as the midget foam. my machine cut’s it like butter no problems. although finishing can take much more time in comparison to the other blanks out now.

my cutters are custom made to specs and require minimal sharpening, from my experience some of the so called non sharpening cutters are limited ie they get clogged up if cutting other materials like solid wood or eps/xtr at higher rates. my cutters do not have this problem. this can be a major pita if you have to shut down to de-clog the cutters.

another benefit of the router type cutters is the cutting forces are perpindicular to the layout. so there is no deflections and deviations from one side of the board to the other as the cutters can be programmed to spin clock-wise and counter clock-wise. as the aps cutter is set-up horizontally and spins one-way so there is more deviation and cutting forces from left to right sides. as the cutter forces are pulling up on the blank. this may not be an issue with high densities but when cutting eps or more delicate materials it will deviate.

Midget,

Although I respect your opinion on Gordon Clark’s Foam, He did not make it the way he did to be easier to shape. Gordon always said that deciding how tough versus hard/brittle was a compromise and there were arguments for both sides but felt making a tougher foam was better than making the foam on the brittle side. I have heard a lot of shapers over the years say they shape Walker because of the ease of shaping.

If Gordon wanted to make the foam easier to shape, he would have changed the formula to a single pass pour product. Pour lines were always a major complaint from everyone. Gordon always thought he knew what was best for everyone, unless a Lopez, Barnfield type could change his mind. Very few people had that ability.

With that said, I believe you are correct on the resilient foam issue. An example, I have a waterski customer that makes very high end water ski’s that is going nuts because changes in PVC foam has made the foam tougher over the last 10 years. Water skis are a lot more exact in their manufacturing processes than custom surfboards, but they still have a hard time quantifity this issue. With all this said, the change in toughness versus resilient properties causes their skis to lose their power in only a few weeks of hard skiing. The skis made from the old foam lasted indefinately power wise. Best place physical property wise to see this is probably in Shear Strain. 10 years ago they were working with a product with a shear strain of 15%, now the same product is at 20% level.

On the other hand, after Clark Foam shut down a lot of shapers including the Rusty’s of this world said Clark Foam was best because it worked better as a dampener compared to other products on the market including Australian foam.

Who the hell knows.

Sluggo

Miki,

I been using the foam and seems like 90% of themm are super twisted.

Even when they come out of the machine, they still twisted.

I have to put more time into it so what’s the point of having the APS cutting our boards.

I try the kkl and the one machine that got the close to what we wanted was the shape3d.

I’m not been disrespectful, but is the blanks the main problem here?

Thanks,

Johnny

You must be getting your foam somewhere other than directly from “Surfblanks Aus.” I am a small time board builder on Maui and get my blanks thru Akubird on Oahu. To my best knowledge these blanks come direct from “Down Under”. I had a few cut on Chris Nakamura’s APS 3000. Handshape or machine cut, either way they are excellent blanks. NO twists , brite white foam, an excellent glue-up and a nice T-band stringer that everybody loves. The foam IS hard and requires more effort on my part as a shaper. Sharper tools, slow passes and power sanding. I haven’t tried a shapers’ barrel yet, but intend to.

So Miki---------------I like the foam and so do my customers. Give me some tips on sandpaper, tools, etc that will speed up my shaping process.

not a worrie but I think it is possible to write an essay about sandpaper. but for shaping surfboards, it all comes down to a sharp edge and a good quality backing.

sandpaper differs in its quality standard and occasional users do fine with “commercial quality” as long as they change it when it gets blunt. professional shapers are much better of with “industrial quality” as it shows advantages in the quality of the abrasive material, the bonding glue and the backing material. in short, it will work better for longer with less physical effort.

try to find “open coated” sandpaper as it gives the cut off foam space to escape and you do not start sanding with your own foamdust. the backing material should be soft and not stiff as it gives you better contour working and more “bite”. if it is too soft, it will absorb some of your energy which results in more sweat.

if you can find it, choose ceramic coating. it works very well and lasts very long. a sanding belt manufacturer is your best address for ceramic coated sandpaper but make sure it comes with a not too stiff backing (mainly available in webbing). the second best is aluminium oxide as it is very sharp, precise cutting and self rejuvenating.

as important as the sandpaper is your sanding block. for a stiff block, use surfboard foam or balsa with a 2-5mm neoprene as a backing layer. go the convential bonding way with glue as velcro creates a “dead feel”. but that might be personal preference.

for finish shaping of machined blanks I love to use a heavy 1" thick, quite soft rubber block approx 4" wide and 14" long (I have seen shapers use it in 2’ length). its made from natural aerated rubber and contours through its own weight and extra length to the board contour. a bit expensive but well worth the investment. the same block with a neoprene backing makes an excellent pre-finishing block and to finish sanding use a piece of surfboard foam (take the skin off first).

Midgets (Surfblanks Australia) blanks may need a coarser grit first (36 grit after the planer) but the sharpness of the paper is more important. as the cell is very fine and there is no stringer glue, finishing off (use a foam offcut) is very fast.

as for twisting, check the blank storage before and after machining. best to check for twist are a few parallel horizontal ropes about 4" apart and 4’ long at the headwall of your shaping bay. place the blank on the stand so the center lines up with one of the lines and then move your head up and down to check tail/nose. a machine that holds the blank only along the stringer can not even in theory be made responsible for twist.

Quote:

Go here. Great stuff if you can get it.

http://www.klingspor.com/

sandpaper differs in its quality standard and occasional users do fine with “commercial quality” as long as they change it when it gets blunt. professional shapers are much better of with “industrial quality” as it shows advantages in the quality of the abrasive material, the bonding glue and the backing material. in short, it will work better for longer with less physical effort.

try to find “open coated” sandpaper as it gives the cut off foam space to escape and you do not start sanding with your own foamdust.

From my experience using only a center fixturing can be a simple set up if all your blank surfaces are perfectly perpendicular to the stinger. From my experience it’s not practical with all the deviations a blanks surface and the quality of the glue-ups.

If you are seeing the same amount of twist in the same location from plug to plug. Most likely the culprit is in the fixturing. Using only center fixturing is relying on the surface of the blank to be square, if the surface has a twist or if the stringer is glued in cock-eyed the center fixturing will set to this less than ideal bottom surface. The fixturing doesn’t know the bottom or glue-up is less than ideal.

Another, area to check is the levelness mounting stops. If the fixturing stop is off only a few degrees on center in squarness, the twist will be quite noticeable as the cutting surface is inches of the center point. To alleviate this I have found that you need to have support stops designed in the fixturing to help alleviate some of these issues.