ARCTIC FOAM vs. Surfblanks vs U.S. Blanks

Arctic Foam is from the American based company that originally offered Surfblanks. There was a parting of ways that has some details to yet be resolved between the parties, but the result has been the formation of “Foam Corps” from the guys that are also known , or at least were known, as “Surfblanks America”.

I am not a liberty to discuss any reason why the decision was made for a new direction for the American based company other than to say I have used the previous Surfblanks foam and am now using increasing amounts of the newer “Arctic Foam” being offered.

**I also have historically used foam from “U.S. Blanks” and continue to do so, but on a more limted basis. **

Both Surfblanks and Arctic are a harder polyurethan foam than U.S. Blanks given the same density. This can be somewhat dificult to determine as instead of making it crystal clear what actual densities the foam is, most companies cite foam in percentages f lightness relative to a “base foam density” or “most commonly used” foam density.

Foaming isn’t an exact science, by any means. You would think the foamers could tell you "black is 3 lb density, yellow is 1 lb. density and more specific information than they do, but for the most part, the descriptions are designed to help the average Joe decide what the best foam density they should purchase for what they want to build and/or offer.

In the last few years, polyurethane foam has evolved beyond what Clark Foam offered. There were many of us that had shaped Clark, Walker, and a few other foams for years prior to Clark’s abrupt closing. I’m stating this from the perspective of being a shaper in the United States. Obviously guys were using MIdget’s Surfblanks as well as Burford and other foams in Australia while guys in South Africa, Brazil, Europe and Japan were using something else.

The primary evolution that the newest polyurethane (aka ‘regular surfboard foam’) has to offer has been the development of a finer, smaller cell. In the past, the lighter foam densities offered from Clark and others, resulted in a fixed cell structure that, as the foam became lighter, the cell wall became more prone to crushing. This was one of the primary reasons I sought out a material that I could build very lightweight sailboards as early as 1981. Weight really wasn’t a concern for the sailboards I built for Jalama, Hookipa, San Francisco, or the Columbia River Gorge. But when it came to desigining successful slalom boards used for tactical racing in light wind, it became quickly evident to me that a lighter core with superior buoyancy was the way to go. That search led directly to earll day use of EPS (Expandable Polystyrene).

The weight difference was hugely siginifcant. When I shaped 9 ft, 5 inch thick light wind slalom boards the typical dual 1/8" stringered, Clark blanks would shape out at about 7-1/2" pounds. In contrast the stringerless 1.0 to 1.5 lb. EPS blanks weighed less than 2 or 3 lbs. At that point, the writing was on the wall. Other than the designs I was using for surfsailing, (and even some of those) we switched to EPS almost overnight.

But as time went along these was at least one distinct advantage with slalom boards sometimes weighing more: momentum, or the ability of the hulls greater weight to continue carrying speed through ‘holes’. By this, I mean the days that the wind was ‘puffy’ or sporadic versus a good solid consistent blow. And there are plenty of days like this, that make it difficult in deciding what size sail or design of sail you are going to put up. The very light EPS based boards noticeably fell off a plane on ‘holey’ days while the heavier ones could continue through a lull until you could pick back up or drop off wind some to maintain speed.

OTOH, the very light EPS boards were like dragsters that you could do a beach start from…stepping onto the board, pumping the sail wildly to thrust the board quickly on to a plane thereby blowing off the guy next to you struggling on a heavier board. The light boards would just blow you off the line every time.

The wide use of EPS in sailboards directly contributed to surfboard guys looking at reducing weight while increasing strength to weight ratios. This evolved into other forms of build that took what i considered stagnant surfboard building methods of the 70’s, 80’s, and 90’s or sometimes referred to as “the forty year bubble” and promoted us to think about alternative methods of cnstruction. Randy French’s “Seatrends” would eventually evole into “SurfTech” and a generation of sandwich construction would begin to gain momentum by the industry and creative DIY’ers.

For a very long time now, the primary distinction between polyurethan foam and expandable polystyrene based foam has been the difference in structure of each foam. The polyurethan foam that the vast majority of surfboards have historically been constructed from represents a ‘fixed cell’ structure that is prone to crushing. In contrast, the bead structure of the EPS results in a closed cell ball that is fused together in a secondary steaming process that has a resilient quality to it with memory. EPS des crush however, and in more technical terms, this is describes as load bearing or impact that represents energy that exceeds the ability of the material to recover. Both materials exeperience experience load bearing and have their individual thresholds for “managing energyy”.

How a material manages energy is not a random feature for many of the products manufactured from well thought out end products. For example, if you take a cyclist’s helmet, a designer may decide he wants that helmet to absorb the energy experienced if a cyclist falls thereby hitting their head. The absorbing of energy results in a big dent or crushing of the helmet rendering it useless, but the designer opts for this approach versus a more ridgid product causing dangerous jarring to the cyclist’s brain. In this case, “failure” was planned in how the designer has the product ‘manage energy’.

With the new polyurethan foams, the finer aka smaller cell structures deliver an increased resiliency not terribly unlike EPS or an extruded polystyrene product. The age old drawback with early day EPS foam is the air space between the closed cell beads that traps and retains water. It is a fact that you can leave an EPS block of fom out in the rain and it won’t became waterlooged with water. The problem comes when the material is encased in fiberglass skins and is pumped upon while riding and has experienced different atmosphere’s inside the board while heating up on the beach, then subjected to colder water than the air temperature. Superfusion is a method of reducing that airspace bonding the beads tighter together thereby allowing less water to be drawn into the blank if compromised by a break in the fiberglass skin.

**All of this history comes around to how the major polyurethane foamers approach what they offer within our industry. **

Of the three companies I have mentioned in the title, all are good products choosing to offer their foams in keeping with what their respective philosophies are in what makes for a great surfboard blank.

**What I have noticed with the foams mentioned is the difference in hardness of shaping each. To be fair, I have not shaped any recent Surfblanks that Midget may have produced inthe last 6 months to a year. I have a pretty extensive inventory of foam including some really good Surfblanks that I originally obtained before Surfblanks America and MIdget went separate ways. That foam is rock hard. I shaped one last week, and it felt like I was finish sanding a brick. The board glassed out light and really strong.  By comparison, the Arctic is also a hard foam, though it has a different quality to it. It finish sands easier but not as easy as U.S. Blanks foam. The Arctic is noticeably harder than the U.S. Blanks but not as hard as the old Midget Surfblanks. Yet the Arctic is also more resilient than the old Surfblanks. In a way, the Arctic reminds me of the old Dow 2.2 lb extruded foam that we shaped about 15 years ago. **

The very commonly used and popular U.S. Blanks (blue) is very soft compared to the other two foams. It glasses well, nets good weights depending upon choice of glass schedule used, but dents considerably easier than the other two. It is a pleasure to shape compared to the old Surfblanks or Arctic.

**From doing all of the blanks (again citing that the Midget SB is from older stock), the Arctic is noticeably the whitest end result. The foam doesn’t suck up a lot of resin, and the guys that I build for that get a lot of dents on their decks have been signing the foam praises. **

**If you are a novice handshaper, you may like using U.S. Blanks because it is easier to sand. USB also has a very deep blank catalog to help you save time and work in arriving upon your desired finished shape. But if you are willing to put a bit more elbow grease into your project, and want a light, great looking durable product, then Arctic Foam is definitely worth considering, and the price is a bit less delivering a really good value.
**

I have been using Millenium foam and have to say it is good stuff. They recently restructed the company and offer a wide variety of custom stinger glue ups, rocker templates, etc. I am currently waiting on an order from them, but it was very easy to do. I was able to talk to the production manager and he worked with me through the order. I would like to try artic foam, but haven’t found an east coast supplier. The swirl blanks that artic is offering looks cool and seems like it would be a blast to shape.

Some good stuff in there DS, yet it sounds like Midget got screwed by those guys.  Midget is beyond a legend, and a heck of a nice guy from all I know.  I can’t say the same for very many people.  I miss Gordon and Harold more and more each day.

What I miss most about the Clark days is the pricing… I respect the pricing now but I do miss 35.00 short board blanks and 70.00 longboard blanks.

I’ve used Surfblanks and US.  I prefer Surfblanks foam but its more convenient for me to get my hands on US so most of my recent boards have been US.  Surfblanks is nicer to work with and yields a more ding resistant board.  Surfblanks foam is very hard compared to US.  Like night and day.

It’s 2004.  I have to run over to Brads place to pick up a blank for a special order.  I had looked thru my stock of around 20 Clarks that I had in the shop (garage) and didn’t have what I needed.  Brad did and so I bought two 9’8 Y’s rather than drive down to Clemente.

Next day Clark closed and my order died.  Never did get a single phone call returned.

In the ensuing days, shaped everything that came out.  Ran into Surfding who had a bunch of EPS & XPS so tried those.  Shaped Bennet foam which was my first experience with Aussie foam.  Liked its hardness & consistent density.  Hated the curved stringers, bad glue, shrinking foam, etc.  Still have a few custom rockered blanks from them.  Walker helped out with the LB’s but didn’t have the blank selection for modern flat bottomed shapes and always was behind on production trying to get a larger piece of the pie.  Still have one 10’2 W left and gonna do me a custom 50/50 noserider for myself with awesome tints & pins one of these days when I get the time.  Liked King Mac, but couldn’t get the numbers.  Really liked Just Foam and tried to support Scott especially after the fire with as many purchases as I could afford as he was the last to actually blow foam in the US and not move to Mexico.  I still have a couple of special glue-ups in my private stash.  Show me a LB order for a grand and you might get one! LOL  Then US Blanks started warehousing and using a similar formula to old Clark and the stringers were straight, they took my rockers, hand shaped great, etc… and we were off to the races.  Surfblanks showed up with a “new” type of foam and I had an order for a bunch of shortboards for a Ment’s trip so I tried them out.  I liked how crisp the foam was and the color, bright white.  Out of 15 boards on that trip, only had one snap.  Just like deadshaper says, they glass up really nice & strong. 

Today I use a mix.  As I do around 30 – 40 boards a year (seasonal) I like to keep my options open.  When I get pre-shapes, the Artic cuts nice without a lot of flex on the machine and I can take a sander with 80 grit paper to them without worrying about being a bit heavy handed. (I’m getting old & weaker, sucks).  I know that there was an issue with Midget but don’t know the details but do know it involved money.  That’s not my business as I am just a little guy.  Like I have said on other posts, USB has great customer service like Clark did, even for us little guys.  I still miss those Clark prices as resindrums said, but I think that Grubby would have raised his too as oil went up. 

As most of the posts on Sways lately seem to come from newer shapers who are just starting out, I would suggest that you try all the different types of foam you can.  Leaving a bit of skin behind with the harder blanks should be part of everyone’s learning curve.  Try to save up to order more than two blanks at a time.  Age your blanks if you can, you will make a better product.  It is really nice to have a selection again with different characteristics that can be used to create a truly custom product.  Just my 2C………

 

Midget called me a few weeks back and we talked for quite awhile.

I can’t really say if he ‘got screwed’ as I think there is a genuine difference of opinion of problems or challenges that involved foam production.

I told him I hope their differences will not affect the supply of good foam from either of them as, ultimately, we benefit from having good suppliers in which to build our products from, and in turn, the consumer benefits from our judicious use of quality materials while making their boards.

I will say this… I have been a long time believer that polyurethane foam blanks degrade quickly as you cut deeper into the foam. The outer skin being the hardest falling away to softer squishy inner foam. I had accepted that this is just physics and what the process of making polyurethane blanks nets. I purposely mowed deep into Arctic Foam to see if if would get noticeably softer once I hit past 1/4", 3/8" and close to 1/2" below the surface. I was very impressed at the integrity of the foam at those depths. I can’t say that for U.S. Blanks.

Midget asked me if I thought Arctic could result in capturing the majority of market share in the United States. I thought for awhile before answering him and said “based on the foam alone…yes. But USB is an extremely professional company when it comes to delivery, selection and overall service. There are so many factors that make up a company that contributes to its success, that I can’t base a judgement solely on product alone”.

Deadshaper,

Your last post is what its really all about.    Hurley and the staff at USB has always been amazing to us… Getting anything from Foam Corps has been worse than pulling teeth. No follow through at all.

So is it called Arctic Foam because it comes from within the Ensenada Arctic circle?

i have 3 clarks ...............6 echotechs......................3 south african......and..........1 walker...........remains in my blank storage.

i've used us blanks.............the reds are the better.

still.............i covet my boards built w/ clarks or walkers.

herb

 

 i heard sth africa?

 

 

**dead
**

 ** funny that  i tried to say all that three yrs ago…   i am told on good authority that none of the foams in u s a     get anywhere near ausie foam**

burfords or surfblanks australia  ** and our pink is more like e p s**    great performance

 

 cheers huie

Bull crap Huie.

The foam is good foam.

Is it the Kingmac Formula as rumored?

Or is that Millenium (aka Blair)?

The delivery issue will kill ANY company… including many surfboard builders that historically have been shitty about getting orders done in timely fashion.

**Domestically, NO ONE can get close to the delivery USB examplifies. **

Arctic had problems with delivery when problems developed with the foam resulting in a high percentage of rejects hampering their ability to deliver quicker. But this was NOT the Arctic formula, and the transition from SB was a heavily weighed decision… at least from what I was told.

**I don’t know what the truth is, and neither  does anyone else because none of us were on the front line or interacting with the parties involved.Let them hash it out. I told Midget that I wish Arctic would KILL IT with business and just compensate him IF that was what needed to happen or decided by blood sucking lawyers that are a parasite in our society that feed upon others that should resolve differences on their own. **

**(Laws were built with good intetnions to govern man, or were laws written by lawyers so they can prey upon people, interpreting them any way they can twist and manipulate them? I’ll stop there… just remember, everyone up on Capitol Hill is a lawyer. Vote whoever you like, it won’t make a shit bit of difference.)
**

If anything, the cruxt of the matter is that delivery of raw materials to those of us in the industry is right at the top of the list for what is important to STAY in business. A parallel to that is having someone order surfboards from you then sticking your thumb up your ass and taking forever to deliver them.

How do you collect an honest paycheck with your thumb up your ass?

**You may as well cram your whole hand up there because it’s not doing anything else constructive…
**

**How do all those people that ordered boards feel?
**




[quote=“$1”]

Bull crap Huie.

 

 haaaa’  nothing untruthfull about what i am saying .    this same bullshit went on in the surfblanks yellow

to understand what i am saying mybe someone should get a container of surfblanks australia

**pink yellow and red    and use them in acordance with there specific densitys.
**

then comeback and call bullshit

 

cheers huie

…hey DS why all that problem with the customers?

In my opinion whichever who s in the industry can and should have a good stock of blanks to back up the orders meanwhile another batch of blanks arrives.

Im in the middle of nowhere and Im a board builder, so for definition (doing all the steps/time consuming), Im a small wshop, but far sighted so have a a good stock of material to prevent possible hassles; yes, lot of money involved, but I live from this so all this stock is not getting dust for too long

Huie;  Don't need a container.  In my shop I have left a couple of Bennets, a King Mac, a couple of Surfblanks and two Artics yellows just went out the door.  Without shaping what we have here in California,  I don't see how you can make that statement with any validity.  yeah, we know we were in a cocoon.  We had no choice.  Every time an Aussie brought their formulas here, Clark squashed them by undercutting prices, threatening distributers, etc.  When Clark left, your countrymates came back and brought their stuff.  Once the kinks got worked out we got to see what you had, and we liked it!  So get off your high horse.  If you ever get here, you can use my shop and try a couple of our "aussie" foams, my treat and see what we are talking about.  Dead was trying to get some feedback if other people had similar experiences with the modified "new" formulas produced by "Foam Corps" based on Midgets Surfblanks.  I remember Midget stating on an older thread that there were excellent foams coming out of their facility.  He said this when they were still known as "Surfblanks America".

**go back read my statement. **

in all my reference i say      SURFBLANKS AUSTRALIA.

seems its the old yellow thing comeing back and you always seem to lead the charge

if bruce dont like it? mybe he should have used a different heading   and i pbly would have remained silent?

 

**cheers huie
**

Alright alright alright alright…

I shoulda called the thread Arctic AND … INSTEAD OF VS.

Or maybe sumthin like  BENDING OVER FOR FOAM or “A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the FoamFactory”…

**So at the end of the day, we have Midget’s Foam whether it is called
Surfblanks, Teccel in Brazil or some othername in Western Tzikistan… then there’s Rhino, and KingMac or Blair or Millenium or whatever they agreed to call it… there’s whatever Walker sold to the Chinese, there’s Scott who I thought told me he was relocating to Asia but I never heard anymore after that announcment… can’t forget Segway… there were a gazillion startups in the wake of Clark’s closure. And yeah, basically Grubbyhad about as close to a monopoly as anyone could have in states regarding foam. I don’t like that mentality… it’s like ol’ Meg’s Ebay/Paypal monopoly that they double dip and charge people ridiculous hard to understand charges in a heavily used and self indulgent system… THEY need a REAL competitor to come in and give that company a whuppin.
**

THE BOTTOM LINE is you can make something, ANYTHING, and can’t DELIVER… then why even bother making it?

**And by the way my dear mate Huie… I know you OZ guys are gr8 folks and have ruled the modern world for awhile now, but us Seppos have managed to kick your arses the majority of the time in America’s Cup…why do you think it is called what it is… Yank power dude. WE’RE TOPS NOW RING A BELL…? (lol)
**

I use Arctic 80% and US 20%. Dead you are spot on I love the foam and the whitness. I know these guys had a huge problem with the quality of the Surfblanks Foam from Australia this is what caused the split. I know first hand as I had many bad blanks and they credited all and took care of me. 

Yeah DS, were NO1, because of Mexican Labor.  With all due respect to you, how many blanks are they giving you for your testimony?  Midget is a stand-up guy who doesn’t get all the respect he deserves, so some wealthy SB trustafarians come in and change the whole thing, doing the “ole sashimi shuffle”, and no one is saying anything because of what- lawyers.  I mean how honest can you be with such a misleading name, Arctic Foam, should be more like sell-out foam sombrero foam.  Yeah, this is the reason I do it the way I do, so that I can speak my mind, and while I am concerned about bruising peoples ego’s well, someone has to.  If someone has a business agreement why can’t they just live up to it?  So many people thought they’d get rich quick with the closing of Clark, and most found out how hard it really is to do- consistently, and delivered on time, at a fair price.  Cold hearted hucksters ruined surfing.

 

haaa’’ bruce ya reving up a bit over foam?

ahh the cup glad you mentiond that the last time we were serious we took it off you remember.

from there we did not give a f##k .   then i think the kiwis took it off you  last i heard they defected to some swedish mob

sorry old mate it was all done way back   to day no one even heres about it or give a rats

 

cheers huie