May be a stupid question but what the heck…here it goes…
Why doesn’t USblanks make foam as hard as Arctic does? Does US not have the technology/formula? do they compensate in order to have a much more “easy to finish” product?
I kinda want to try this stuff now
sorry if this has already been answered and I missed something.
thanks
No further comment
What I find disgusting about all this is how Midget’s name is disparaged here; All the foam I ever shaped from Surfblanks America was rock hard, but light, and made a stronger board. You reference to this as a “Fuck You Shapers” foam is low. Yeah, it took a little more effort to hand finish, yet it machined cleanly, and was consistent. I think the guys over here probably messed it up more than anything, and now that the factory footprint is in place, worker’s trained, and an established customer base, they change formula’s and say FU to the only man whom new what it took get it up and going, but is in Australia, so the money guys over here cut him out. That’s how I see it. The obvious revelation is in the name Are-tick foam give me enough insights, despite their vain attempt at obfuscation, yeah that’s how lots of American businessmen get’er done! No wonder why they hate us.
What I find disgusting about all this is how Midget’s name is disparaged here; All the foam I ever shaped from Surfblanks America was rock hard, but light, and made a stronger board. You reference to this as a “Fuck You Shapers” foam is low. Yeah, it took a little more effort to hand finish, yet it machined cleanly, and was consistent. I think the guys over here probably messed it up more than anything, and now that the factory footprint is in place, worker’s trained, and an established customer base, they change formula’s and say FU to the only man whom new what it took get it up and going, but is in Australia, so the money guys over here cut him out. That’s how I see it. The obvious revelation is in the name Are-tick foam give me enough insights, despite their vain attempt at obfuscation, yeah that’s how lots of American businessmen get’er done! No wonder why they hate us.
**You would have to ask USB for that answer. Jeff Holtby no doubt would have good reasoning for what they offer. Clark was always proud of developing the “crispy on the outside, soft on the inside” formulas. That was after the “close tolerance” blanks were developed and in close conjunction with a greatly expanded custom rocker program. Before that quantum leap, I belonged to a generation of shapers that had to hone keen abilities to “read foam” and “reconstruct” blanks to net what we were after. That was no easy feat… it was a LOT more work, and there was a lot more waste on the floor. **
Huie’s summation about the master not being in the house at each facility producing ‘his’ foam, is a reality like someone comparing a “Big Mac” in Los Angeles to one in Paris, Cairo, Beijing and Buenos Aires… Mc D’s strives that “the experience will be indentical” and that just isn’t the case.
But Mc D’s WANTS the profits from world wide distribution and (aye) there’s the rub. And as far as someone ‘stealing’ formulas, I seem to recall hearing how the Surfblanks guy in Brazil had ‘developed’ some other SB densities and characteristics that were being commended for their properties. So should that be condemned as traitorous or applauded as advancing the ‘team’ effort?
In the real world, foam from anyone can have periods where challenges aka problems develop. It happens in surfboard factories too. I remember a time when we started getting fisheyes, and we were going crazy trying to deduce what the hell was going on. We thought it must be oil in our air system that we blew off sanded boards, but we had a toilet paper canister filter and we changed that, We checked lines, we did ALL kinds of things to correct the problem surrounding the sanding of boards before glossing… and the problem cleared up and disappeared on its own.
We never conclusively found out what caused it.
Shit like that can happen in foam production.
Anyone denying that lives near Peter Pan.
**Yes, try the foam if you are so inclined. **
**Don’t expect ANY foam not to vary in quality including the ones discussed here. ALL of them have had gassing or shrinkage or discoloration or some other challenges at any given time in their history. **
**ALL OF THEM. **
I’ve been nice here… there are ‘horror stories’ that could be brought up, but that would be a disservice to the guys, all of them, striving for perfection. That’s like ALL of us on Sway’s striving for a perfect build.
It doesn’t always happen.
**Welcome to the real world.
**
Asteven-------Just a quick IMHO answer to your question. American foam (ie Clark,Walker, Foss, Rogers etc.) thoroughout history has always been a "soft" formula. Very condusive to hand shaping. Whereas Australian formulas like South Coast, Midget's Surfblanks, Bennet, King-Mac, Burford etc. are definitly harder. The rub for American shapers is the extra time and change in methods required to shape an Ozzie blank. They were spoiled by years of soft, close tolerance, rocker specific blanks supplied by Clark for years. Alot of West Coast and Hawaiian shapers jumped on various Australian suppliers as they became available after Clark's closing. Reality sent in went those shapers soon saw that using a harder more time consuming to shape blank would cut into their production and flat wear out some of their old asses. It's like shoulder brusitis here I come. The first two or three longboards I shaped out of Ozzie formula took me an extra forty minutes to an hour each and lots of tears with planer if I hadn't slowed down. Gradually I refined my methods and started doing some things I had never done to foam before to improve my times and production #'s. But some guy's gave up on harder foam right away. Some were on the verge of quitting altogether until US Blanks came along with a foam that suited the handshaper. That's it in a nutshell. US Blanks came up with a business plan and a targeted customer and filled that niche. One of the partners, Ted Wilson has spent his whole life around West Coast and Island shapers. He knows what they want. Lowel
thanks mcding and deadshaper…
I’m definately considering giving the harder stuff a try being that I am not constrained by time or orders and I’d rather take an extra hour or two to have a more durable product.
thanks
Opportunity awaits.
DS----------- I like it when you post up pics. of blanks in warehouses. It's like looking at a photo of 100's of naked and beautiful women just waiting for a man with the right tool. L
**I love it… foam porn. **
Go ahead, pick one.
**Did I shape five or was it six? Do you feel lucky punk? **
**Go ahead, make my day…
**
Not to stick up for Grubby too much here but a lot of the formualations you guys are talking about didn’t exsist at the end of Clark. Ultra light was quite a bit lighter than any other foam at the time worldwide. Yea there’s better stuff today but this is years later. I formulate chemicals too and looking back at what we had then and what we have now is apples and oranges. Time moves on. Companies that don’t keep up quickly become history. I’ve also seen some nice stuff coming from Asia and Brazil nowdays as well. Pretty much all better than the last vestages of CF. But I hardly think Grubby would still be pouring the same ole superblue if he were still here. BTW love the thread.
Imagine ME sticking up for Grubby? Time sure does strange things.
@ Greg Loehr… And slightly o.t.
Nice to have you back here a little more on Sway’s lately…")
Anything new cooking in the RR kitchen??
Hi Huie -
Thanks for posting that link. I couldn't finish it but did manage to read a lot of it. In retrospect, I should have just gouged out both of my eyeballs with a pocket knife. No wonder some people have a tendency to take the law into their own hands... you know, the 'You ripped me off and now I must kill/maim you or burn your shit down' kind of stuff. I hope you have been able to get through life without dealing with such gobbeldy gook. It does show what people are capable of doing in the name of a buck. It also shows why lawyers are often despised.
Yeah Imagine? But all true Greg. I'm glad it all happened. And it all still is. Lowel
Still curious about the current Eskimo foam - anyone tried it ?I know Tokoro has it in Hawaii and there’s some in Fla.
Greg,
I agree completely… no telling what Gordon (Grubby) would have come up with by now.
Regardless of which foam ‘brand’ one chooses to use, the age old approach remains much the same:
Light core more glass vs heavier core less glass.
Obviously I steered clear of getting into alternative methods employing a ‘skin’ of alternative material over such cores. I will go on record as stating that, when it comes to adding a skin of some alternative material than hand laminated or vac bagged fiberglass, I still favor EPS as the core material.
Just for the record, and this this is just my personal, though somewhat educated opinion, that I suspect will never be confirmed… if you gave me the Arctic w/o the logo on it, I would swear it was KingMac.
Now go out and buy whatever you like and shape it up with your grit barrel, blade planer, CNC or surform depending on who ya are and what ya want.
cheers huie
Huie… if you want to take my comments out of context so be it.
**What I’m stating here, I stick by. This is a thread in the “General” section not an Industry only thread. **
When i made that statement I was talking about a layman building or buying a board off the rack that wouldn’t be hammered from every day hard use or needed to be a ‘comp’ weight for a pro surfer.
**As suppliers in the industry, if you want to provide Ultralite boards that pro’s would ride, so be it. **
Pro’s don’t pay my mortgage… the every day surfer does.
I don’t know if you guys in OZ have some secret that has allowed for your economy to make a 180, but in the states most of us are still saddled with tight budgets, lost equity, escalating utilities and higher prices at the pump every time we fill up to go to work or the beach.
My goal is to supply a good, durable product that my customes repeatedly thank me for great service, fair prices and an overall good value. I strive to turn over all overs in a two to three week period.
Sure, yellow, orange, pink, or whatever denotes an ultra light core, is sexy and attractive to any performance oriented surfer. You are very capable of doing builds to satisfy these guys. I can do ultralites with S glass epoxy layups, or EPS with cork, or any number of “higher brow” approaches to board building.
At the end of the day I’ve got to fill orders for the working stiffs that just wanna have fun with a board that lasts and leaves some coin in their pockets for gas to get to the beach.
**
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**dead **
** interesting **
get back to you later
busy
** cheers huie
**
