Nope, didn’t work very well. Mostly the glassing process. Huge delaminations.
Not much else to say.
Hey Eduardo, Your situation sounds very much like mine a few years ago in a small town in New Zealand. My wife was enjoying surfing but only being small and sub 60Kg’s was not loving the 8ft minimal as she progressed to trying to get it out into the waves and walk it down to the beach. I fell into a similar trap of shaping something pretty short and fat, what then followed was she was happy going down to the beach and easily got the board out into our gentle little beach break, but then failed to catch almost any waves and then on the ones she did catch made no progression towards turning a board because it was so wide. I would suggest aiming for something in the 6 1/2 ft- 7ft range but with an outline not so full as a minimal and if she is small (rude to ask a womens weight I know) maybe lose some volume, this will allow her to still catch plenty of waves and begin to initiate some turning with stability, soemthing like an egg perhaps.
The balance for those of us who aren’t surf crazy (you know the feeling when all you think about is the ocean and surfing), is allowing them to progress but not creating a huge jump where they lose interest and confidence (i.e. a shortboard in 1-2ft rollers), of course my problems may have stemmed from my novice shaping and not my board choice for the wife. Just my two cents, donb’t lose her to paddleboarding…
Just a couple thoughts… I’d go as long as she allows. If 7’ felt too long, go shorter but I’d say not by very much. Consider also how wide and thick she will able to carry. ‘Fish’ dimensions at nose and tail will help with flotation and stability. Maybe in the 16"-17" widths one foot from either end.
I saw this outline (below) awhile back and saved it - thinking it looked interesting enough to maybe give it a go. It has a nice clean look with a tapered/rounded square double ender effect.
On the entry, I have found from direct experience that a rounded hull-like entry in the front third of the board makes wave catching easier than a concave.
Fins at her skill level won’t make or break anything. You have to be pushing the board limits to appreciate much in that realm.
height and weight of rider???
That reminds me of what brought me to shaping a couple of years ago.
A was a surf beginner, all I could do was catch unbroken waves and slide down the line. I couldn´t do turns.
Beeing 6´4 and at chubby 240 pounds back in those days, everybody told me to use boards as big as possible.
They gave me 8-9ft softboards and I hated it so much. I hired some “fun”-/beginner- boards in the 7-8ft range and it felt better. But I really wasn´t pleased somehow.
That´s when I decided to built me a wide, short, high volume board.
First one was a 6.8, but I didn´t like it. Surfed it three times and started to shape the next board.
For the second board I made, I used exactly that Tomo Evo outline that Johnmellor shows.
I made a fat 6.2x22.5x3.1/8 board with utlra boxy rails. Something like 50l
Not well executet, but what can you expect from the second board.
Every experienced surfer told me I was doing everything wrong - a big fat bloke trying to learn surfing on a self shaped 6.2.
But somehow it worked out for me, I loved that board from the first paddlestroke.
I learned quicker than with any other board before. My takeoffs got better, I learned how to turn, how to duckdive, I started to do small steps towards the nose and I did my first cutbacks on that board. I used that board a lot (untill it felt way to big for me).
Long story short:
Of course I´m not saying every beginner who complains about longer boards should switch to short/wide/fat boards. Not at all. Not making progress is a risk.
But for some it may work. At least for me I feel it did.
Your wife / girlfriend will be smaller and a lot lighter than me and you say she is athletic. So you will choose maybe a little smaller dimensions (don´t go to small though), less volume and more refined rails depending on her height and weight. (As others said, also look for what she can carry.)
I think that kind of “nugget” outline is not a bad choice for what you are aiming for.
I think somethink like the bnlendingcurves Nug C could work.
https://www.blendingcurves.com/outline-templates/nug-c
Or something similar to that “retro d” outline could be a starting point. (I´d go a little longer on that outline than I would with the Nug C)
https://www.blendingcurves.com/outline-templates/retro-d
Should you decide to go as wide as you say, I would put some V in the bottom rather than concave. It will be much easier to turn. Think of the concave as of a catamaran: the wider you go, the harder it will be to dip rails. Trust your athletic girl to learn quite fast on a shorter but not over wide and over thick board. A full planshape will help with stability but no need to be too wide; besides, she will probably appreciate to be able to carry the board under her arm.
I would make the tail rather narrow, but put the volume below the chest, or front part of the board. the volume in the front should help to catch the waves, but the narrower tail should prevent a little to rush down the wave to fast, you want to stay in the wave not before it, not in the trough (hope I spelled this right :))
the volume I would integrate by a combination of width and more height. the width I would not go wider than she can carry, the rest of volume by adding height. Imagine a 70th single fin shortboard, a little longer and a little higher, that would be my board for her…
Bottom as my foreposters said, no concave, but flat or slight Vee, especially in the tail…
If I went really wide, I would add a chine to the rail. I would look at a Walden Mega Magic as a model for what I would start with for rails and bottom.
For a female novice who isn’t getting out a lot I’d take into consideration several factors:
Most boards designed for women run a little narrower than for the men due to the differences in shoulder widths. Your judoka girlfriend might be a little wider in the shoulders but you still need to consider how she’s going to handle they board out of the water, how she’s going to sit on the board between sets and how she’s going to paddle it.
More surface area up front will make the board harder to duck dive, particularly for women who don’t have as much upper body strength - that may not apply to your surfer, or it may still apply but not as much. 14" or 15" @12 won’t be a problem, but 16" or the wide snowboard shaped noses will be harder for someone of smaller stature to duckdive.
Most women’s boards include a little more nose rocker, and include rails that are thinned out a bit because they tend to weigh less than men.
Most novices have no business on a thruster because most novices are incabable of getting their rear foot over the center fin of a thruster set. In real life, novices tend to pop up and plant further forward. If you want to accomodate this limitation you need to move the center of effort for the rear foot further forward and do the bottom contour so that they will still be able to turn the board even when they don’t have that much leverage over the tail. For fins you could go with a quad set and push the fin cluster forward a bit. Use the asymmetric or even double foiled (center fin), set close to the front fin but moved further in away from the rail. That combo will move the sweet spot for your surfer’s rear foot rforward by at least 6-8". Lighter riders seem to prefer the inset and asymmetric foiled rears, whereas heavier riders seem to favor single foiled rears out at the rail. Or, you could just go with a singlefin - it’s not like a novice is going to actually need a fin cluster to pump.
Whatever fin setup you choose, foil the board so it will trim better for the rider based on where they’re going to be standing. As opposed to where they would be standing if they were of more average or good ability.
As Balsa and a couple others said, you need convex (some vee) to loosen the tail up. Not concave. I’d do a flat bottom with a subtle chine (like 1/8th" or less) through the middle and running into a slight vee. A little convex goes a long way, so don’t get carried away with it. I’d skip the bat tail or any fish-like outline in the tail altogether and just go with a round tail that will be easy and smooth and predictable through the turn. The board won’t be real fast or drivey but it will be easy to turn. No drama whatsoever.
With the EPS blank you have consider making her a 6’6" x 22" x 2 3/4" egg-type shape. Wide, rounded nose. squash tail around 16" wide. Flat to Vee in the tail.
The object is to catch waves, progress, and have fun.
Keep it simple.
Hi Eduardo - In the ‘edit’ of your first post at top of thread you asked if I could explain the entry… I just meant to round out the bottom slightly to allow the nose to kind of ‘settle in’ on the take offs. My experience has been that a rounded bottom (belly) of about 1/2"-5/8" (as measured with a straight edge rail to rail and approximating depth from stringer to rail bottom.) In contrast, I have found that nose concaves can hold you up on the take off and prevent the front of the board from dropping down the face. I hope that makes sense?
This is strictly subjective, but I have noticed that a thinner, more foiled nose on a midlength board drops in easier than a thick, buoyant one.
OK! I got it now! The ´settle in´ was the part that made me get it! Yes, very hull-like you said it before.
I think I have incorporated this aspect on the very front of the nose.
I was reading your comment and thinking… wait a minute, that sounds like making a chine on the deck part of the nose! Doesn´t it? I´m saying that because I just wrote about how I dislike chines but after half-day I just realised that I actually have been using chines on my big round noses since my first board. I just had not been looking at them as chines, maybe they aren´t chines. Or are they? Because what I usually do on my round noses is something very foiled as you mention, not so thin, but foiled for sure. With a chine on the deck part only, and the bottom part of the nose is pretty much a regular round nose, but it ends ´before´, because of the cut line going down from the deck. If that makes any sense.
Thanks again for all the input so far. I truly appreciated. I´m very stubborn. But I do listen and I do reflect about it. It´s just that I have a very visual aproach to making things. Very gut-feeling and visual. So, if I´m not seeing it in my mind I can not make it. The V on the bottom for example, I could not see it, so I could just not give up of the concave. But now, after pre-shaping the board I started to see it, and as I said, next board will have some V. But for now I will keep the way it is, actually, I have reached a point in the process where I think I will keep everything the way it is. Let me explain. I decided to make a pre-shape, something very rough that I would trim later. Problem is, I can not touch the pre-shape to trim it. I can not see it any different! I think this pre-shape is actually the final shape, and I wont be doing anything more on this blank.
I´ve told you that I´m very experimentalist. And this board is no different. And on this specific board I want to experiment with its weight. I want it to be heavy, 12lbs, maybe more. So the board has its rails sunk deep in the water by itself. I kept the blank at pretty much 3 1/4. Now, the board being so thick, I want it to be heavy to counter-balance this much volume. Also, I made the concaves to (hopefully) work best carrying this weight already.
The idea is that with more weight the board will be more stable.
P.S. I will post more specific dimensions later (6´3 x 23 7/8 x 3 1/4)
I implore you to put some curve into that template because there’s no way a novice is going to be able to overpower a straight planshape in that length/width. Even the Simmons and Tomo shapes have some curve and a distinct wide point. And those are usually cut super short with the idea that a strong surfer will literally overpower their volume and their tendency to run straight.
Straight is for drive, curve is for control. What you’ve got there will go very fast in a straight line, probably faster than the wave. So your surfer gets a drop, she’ll go straight until she runs out of shoulder and then her ride is over because she won’t be able to turn back into the wave.
You already said you were going to do what you’re going to do, so I get that. But let me run one question for your consideration. Do you think that a novice surfer who’s just starting out generally needs more drive/speed, or more control? Less margin for error on the drop and turn, or more margin for error?
Making a board ,with the ruse it is for my wife, can only mean it will become what I want to ride/build/experiemnt on. Ignore the flower graphics and words B U T T E R C U P, it will become my daily driver.
Thanks G, your input is most appreciated. I´ve read your messages about 5 times and will probably read 10 more.
What happens is that I´m not thinking about turning at all. The kind of waves she will be using this board have little to none room for turns. Think small waves, really tiny, now divide them in half. Those are the waves she feels comfortable in. And she is happy going in a straight line as long as she is going. That´s the whole point of me building this board. Something that she will go. Because with the other boards she would just stand up and instantly fall (usually to her heel side) or stall. I don´t know, she is just very heavy footed. I take it´s the judo background. Sometimes we fool around at the gym, I never did martial arts, but I dig most sports, so I enjoy learning judo or jiu-jitsu with her. I´m 95kg and she throws me around like I´m nothing,
And as for the control/drive situation. I´m not a shaper, I have little knowledge and the things I do are all by gut-feeling. And I did this shape thinking about the very weak waves she likes to catch. When it´s not tiny, she will ask to stay on the inside catching white water. So I created something I thought will go nice on a straight line and that would be very difficult to fall because of too much pressure on the heels or because foot is not centered. Something she will stand up and will be able to stay up long enough to realise she is putting way too much pressure on her heels.
About the dropping/turning/more margin for error. I think is a discussion for her next board. The one with a V, more curvy and not so wide. For the time when she is comfortably going to the outside and always catching unbroken waves. Which will take some time, because when one has not loads of affinity with the ocean, and when one gets to spend only 3 hours per week on the ocean, the process becomes very slow.
Things I noticed re-reading the thread.
@anti
´allowing them to progress´ when I read this for a second/third time it got me thinking a lot. And a few moments from last summer came to my mind. When she was happily catching white water and I was (I realise just now) being a pain in her ass trying to convince her to go outside with me because it was very small. ´But I´m happy here´ she told me. And connecting this with gdaddy´s question ´a novice surfer needs more drive or more control?´ I came up with the answer: she needs more fun!
I appreciate all your feedback. With all your concern about the board being too wide and impossible to turn. I think I have the perfect board for her. I think that´s exactly what she needs. And when we go custom isn´t that what we want? Something that will serve a very specific purpose? That will meet our needs? I think that´s what she will benefit most at the moment. Something that wont turn. When she gets comfortable going to the outside on knee high days, and start to drop waves that shows the board is unrideable, then I´ll move her to the next board. Actually there will be one thing before moving to the next board…
@G
´ there’s no way a novice is going to be able to overpower a straight planshape in that length/width.´ Gdaddy. That´s exactly the kind of thing this girl loves. The challenge! So if things work out well and she gets comfortable to drop some 2 footers, I will show her how to grab rail. How to stick your arm elbow deep in the water to put your craft on the desired line. When I was 13th a friend showed me that move and it didn´t take me long to start dropping and quickly turning a very old and heavy 9´6 longboard. Elbow deep, it was the only way to make a bottom turn on that thing. I think she will enjoy the challenge.
About carrying the board… she can just carry whatever I will be using and I carry the aberration. Duck diving? She can turtle roll. She was getting good at rolling with her 7´0. I think with the aberration it won´t be different.
´Think of the concave as of a catamaran: the wider you go, the harder it will be to dip rails´ that´s exactly why I went concave. You haven´t seen what I have. Which is my girl standing up dipping the outside rail big time, doing a hard turn left straight to fall. There were a few times she managed to balance herself a bit better on top of the board. But always a struggle, thus my choice of board for her. Am I exaggerating? Am I way off? I know a way to find out!
Swaylockers! The shape will be the one from the photos. Sorry about it! But it´s the aberration! Lets see what happens! I appreciate all your input. As I mentioned, I was thinking about incorporating concepts (like making it 5´9 and deep channels) that would work for me. Your feedback helped me create something that meets strictly her needs.
Now lets move on to fin set ups, and type of lamination.
As I said, I´m thinking twin fin, with center plugs just for the heck of it. Some suggested quads, I don´t know, I think it´s just too much work putting 4 plugs for such a board. 2 will do the work. But there´s still time to re-consider.
About fin placement. I have already (as seen on the photos) moved the fins a bit forward on my first drafts. It does make more sense. Maybe I should move more forward? Maybe I should take better pictures and write dimensions so you can give better feedback?
About the board´s weight. Remember I´m aiming for this crazy stable impossible to turn board. Therefore putting more weight will help, right? I don´t know where I got 12lbs from, but it´s the number I´m on my mind for now. Thoughts on it?
About lamination. I will be doing the ´don´t try this at home¨ basic barrier coating described on this thread ( https://www.swaylocks.com/forums/polyester-resin-polystyrene-foam ) and if there are more threads about this process please show me the links. This is the one I found. Also, if people want to discuss specifically about this process, maybe better then to open a new thread, right? And keep this one about the aberration.
I think I covered everything I wanted to cover.
Thanks a lot
Train wreck here. I’d stop right now and re-evaluate this board. Outline is wrong, bottom shape and rocker are wrong, thickness may be wrong if you don’t manage to thin it out at the rail.
You are making a board that will be very hard to ride.
An easy to ride board would have a bit more rocker, a very slightly rolled bottom, nice curve in the tail outline.
You have been given very good advice and pretty much blown off everyone.
“Remember I´m aiming for this crazy stable impossible to turn board.” Think you have it! But I would urge you to listen to shark country & others. You’ve had some great honest advice, that you asked for, gleaned from men who all have way more experience & you’ve chosen to ignore most of it. Well It’s your build and I appreciate you want to do it your way so best of luck!