Hi, Im looking to make a stronger FCS plug install, Im not bothered about the weight, materials, amount of resin or tricky techniques.
What I have tried is to use uncut ( no microbaloons) resin with scrap glass and then the plug on top.
The resin soaks in to the foam to grip more and the glass gives it more strength. But theres a lot of resin under the plug.
The 2.0 version was using part of the foam core I cut out to make the hole and then fit that foam under the plug so it wasn’t solid glass. See pic.
Neither technique hasn’t failed yet, but does anyone have any other techniques or ideas of how to do this .
Thanks.
The only thing I can think of is to scrape out some foam at the bottom of the hole to give it an inverted Tee profile to add surface area and a plug to prevent pullout. I always add a small piece of cloth with the boxes too.
…hello, those fcs plugs are done with a joint to the deck of the board; do you not have that in that drawing.
No matter how do you do it, they do not resist the impacts with normal or lighter foam densities.
@ Reverb, I think im doing the Std install with a circumfrential gap around the plug as well as under to the deck.
@ Patrick Freen. It has to be plugs at the moment because of their cheapness and versatility.
i wonder if anyones tried thru bolts or routing completely thru and 2 layers of glass connecting the tube with the deck ?
For a really strong plug I glassed over them. Fill the holes (fin slot and screw) with scrap foam. I use an antenna from a broken radio to get a tube the right size to cut out some foam to fit the screw hole. Sharpened it on one end and then used the other smaller sections to push out the cut foam. Use a screwing action to get it to go in the hole on top of the deep set screw. Then lay some glass over. be careful when you open the boxes and screw holes not to delam the glass.
truly amazing… so you have lived in a cave for the last 15 years? No contact with the outside world.
This problem was solved over 20 years ago… LokBox , O’ fishl , Probox , Futures , 4 Way Fin System…
Even FCS had to rip off the others and come up with Fusion and Fusion2…
What’s up … You think you are the first guy to glass over the top of a plug or add some reinforcement… Wow…
Key words “cheapness” and “versatility”… meaning what? Not really using FCS products? Got some internet rip offs?
Guess what… it cost less for 1 fusion box than 2 FCS plugs…wow. wowwer wow wow wow wow…
The older FCS plugs used a boring tool like a hole saw for a drill to make a circular cut that goes all the way to the deck lamination. It doesn’t remove the foam. It has a grit cutting edge not a saw like edge. The plugs are supposed to connect to the deck lam for a stronger installation. They used to have stickers to cover the holes if you went through the deck lam, which is easy to do with plugs close to the curved rail. Those older plugs and light weight EPS usually don’t work well, but a older poly board should be fine.
I like those older plugs for installing more fins into older Poly boards because they are so easy to install, but as Stingray said, the price for a set of those is now more than the newer style Fusion boxes, or Proboxes.
Another thing you can do is set a larger diameter insert of HD foam then install the FCS plugs the way Josh Dowling does his boards.
I’m a beginner. I understand why some people still like to use the old plugs. It’s cheaper as a beginner for making mistakes. FCS2 here is $60usd for a quad set. The old FCS are cents and I can get them quickly. Elliciel puts 2 conduits through to a wooden deck and reports this as reliable: https://www.elleciel.com/building-process/
Perhaps you get fin boxes a lot cheaper? Did you 3D print any boxes? How much are you guys paying for your fin boxes on experimental boards/ practice? My costs for my previous board were approx.:
~$12 plugs
~$15 EPS foam from a clearance builders merchants… but 1lb
~$35 epoxy
~$30 in epoxy traded for some fibre and a space/tools to work with
Futures would have increased the box price to $40 but I also would have had to buy new fins so that would have added another $80 too so this would have more than doubled the price which didn’t seem wise for the first epoxy EPS board.
There’s those old FCS style plugs that are joined together o=o , maybe that’s a cheap bet - install under glass, use a borrowed router with incorrect bit(?) possibly or cut out with a blade. Then also run a resin tube through to the deck too at the back.
hi, i think one of the major reasons fcs 1 plugs fail is that there is’nt enough glass to support the plugs laterally, the standard install protocol requires a football shape of extra glass patch but this step is not often done and even if done is often sanded away especially on the center fin ,
i have often repaired plugs that have failed and there has hardly been any glass surrounding the plugs ,
so my advice would be to slightly sand or depress the area around the the plugs to accept an extra layer of glass level with the foam and then glass as normal ,
also i always use milled glass fibre in the mix to fill the rings around the plugs ,not like its done in a production shop but fill the plug holes half full with milled glass/ resin and then press in the plugs ,
i also try and fill around the plugs at this stage with as much glass bits of cloth as i can get in there ,
its all messier and more time consuming but i never have any failures this way ,
the original design of the fcs1 was that the plug should have a strong install and in the event of an impact the fin should break but what happens in most cases is that the plugs get ripped out and everything is lost ,
thickened resin without milled glass to fill around the plugs allways leads to cracking which inturn starts movement and water penetration and then eventually failure , pete
Thanks for that PeteUK, I did a set today with the same or similar technique.
I drilled out the core with a saw toothed bit.
Removed the foam core and cut it in 1/2.
Mixed poly resin and offcuts of glass and carbon to form a yoghurt consistency. Add the MEKP. And mix.
Put a blob of the resin/carbon mix in the holes, pushing it down and up against the walls to create a cylinder.
Drop the 1/2 depth foam plug in and another blob of the mix and again push the mix against the walls up to the rim.
Push the plugs in on A support and with some luck there’s a slight excess with little air bubbles that comes out of the void.
When set there’s a resin / carbon cage around the foam and fin plug extending from the deck to the hull.
The resin has soaked into the surrounding foam more than a stiffer mix could, and the fibre component has reduced the chance of fracture.
I often use the fcs 1 like copy plugs because it’s the only system sold by my main supplier. i first do the up to deck trick but have sometimes exotherm problems (epoxy in eps). I also do pvc insert first, effective way to do. Know i cut foam 10mm deep all around the hole under fiberglass then i fill with a resin micro flox mix before put plugs. Don’t have problems with this tech for the moment.
Gentlemen… I have so much fun on this site it’s unreal…
FCS plugs suck…and they’ve sucked for years…way back in the olden days Mr Stingray logged onto Swaylocks for the first time… looking for ding repair advise… I can’t tell you how many FCS plugs this backyarder has fixed…mostly top brands…
The low cost solution is glass on fins. You gotta buy fins anyway. No plugs or boxes. No special tools. No jigs or trick router bits. Much stronger…and… the cloth for the install is the cut offs from your glass job…
Simple, easy, low cost…Go For It !
