You seem to have broken my longboard when you routed those two fin boxes in to it.
Now when I surf this board it goes way too fast and turns with an abbreviated radius that causes large amounts of spray that disturb the local seals and gulls.
Do you think that if I dragged a bucket off my leash loop it might make it ride like it used to?
I just logged a few hours of the most phenomenal birthday surf at a right point setup with just myself and one friend…this board made a great session totally phenomenal…I can’t believe the feel of this setup compared to the singles I’ve riddin in this board.
First wave comes…big outside set…hadn’t really surfed this thing in anything over waist high and wasn’t sure how the fin positioning was going to be. Paddle in, pop up and lean in to the bottom turn and the afterburners kick in!
Thanks again to you and David for all your help getting this thing setup for me.
The first boards the setup was put into, are what people now define as ‘’‘hulls.’’ In every instance, the performance of the board improved. The fin setup WILL NOT make a poorly shaped/designed board perform beyond its design limitations. It will however, allow a board to reach its potential. In many instances a board is hampered by poor fin design, or improper fin placement.
Well, I’m delighted that you had a good first session. That setup always provides a more dramatic experience, if it is put into a board that the rider already has dialed in as a single, or other fin configuration. That is when you really feel the changes in speed coming out of turns, and the crispness of cutbacks. Your performance envelope just got bigger. Always nice when that happens,eh? And YES, the bucket will help you recover your prior performance level.
Howzit Bill, Now that is one sweet set up. Did you have to rout 3 seperate box holes or 1 large enough for 3 boxes, inovation is one of the keys to advances in our trade and I love that one. Aloha,Kokua
Good to hear from you. The board was built by Tyler, as a single fin, and I dropped the two extra boxes in some time after he had ridden it as a single. I don’t think I’d like to tackle a three box set, at one time. Too much chance of a hiccup. I also did a 2 + 1, glass ons in 1964. It was interesting, but did not confir any advantages to the performance of a 9’ 6’’ 30 pound surfboard. Too loose, by the then standards of performance. I came up with this twin setup in 1970, though I didn’t bother to put it into a board until 2000. No one else had blundered onto the concept, so I put two more boxes into an existing board, and went surfing. It changed a very good board, into an exceptional board. Thank you for the kind words.
You gotta love it when you get customers that ask to SLOW DOWN their boards…pussies.
Those years on sailboards made me get used to SPEED on waves…big section? No problem, sheet in and crank a turn…lip bounce? How about rebounding off the lip for 30 feet?
I love your thinking outside the envelope…it kinda lends insight to watching all the pro’s riding the same damn board within an 1/16 of an inch…yawn!
Note: The late BK (Bob Krause) had a twinnie like this dual box setup. No one ever really picked up on it even though he stated that it went real well.
Open your mind your ass will follow Eh??!! Good work!
Hi Bill, I just rode my double fin for the second time. I can’t really say if the board rides better or worse than it would as a single or a thruster. I can say that I haven’t felt anything negative about the setup.
I don’t have a leash on the board so I’m not really throwing it around. The waves have been small and slightly windy, and I’ve had fun riding the board. You might be right about the board gliding better and not bogging on the turns, but I’ll have to ride it with a single to see the difference.
Hi Bill, I just rode my double fin for the second time. I can’t really say if the board rides better or worse than it would as a single or a thruster. I can say that I haven’t felt anything negative about the setup.
I don’t have a leash on the board so I’m not really throwing it around. The waves have been small and slightly windy, and I’ve had fun riding the board. You might be right about the board gliding better and not bogging on the turns, but I’ll have to ride it with a single to see the difference.
I have attended 2 of Bill’s get-togethers so am familiar with the concept.And do have this on my to do list… always adding to the data base. But, I’ve got a lot on my plate right now.
It’s an easy retro fit however I currently don’t have a Penetrator or any other board that I’m willing to retro fit right now. I’m sure it will change performance characteristics. That said and me being me, I’ve got to test stuff at least for my own knowledge base before I make anything available.
Speaking of fins. John Peck does have his own fin design available now; you may want to go with that on your board.
D.R.
Bill,
Do I remember right that you’ve used this set up with single foiled fins and the flat side out?
You do remember correctly. Single foiled fins, flat side out. However double foiled fins work just fine. the single foiled fins are the extreme extension of the theory of how the system functions. The fun of the single foiled fins is that they really mess with peoples mind, when they see them. It violates what they think they know about how fins and surfboards work.
Considering will how long it takes to lay out and rout out two additional fin boxes, plus the risk if weekining the tail, it would be easier to fabricate a double fin that would fit into an existing single fin box. There would be issues with respect to their connection, but with a little thought and some R and D it could be done.
I’m not sure you could make a fin that would be strong enough without having some sort of bump where they are set into a single fin box.
I routed out all three fin boxes and set them all at one time. I have 1/4" strips of Balsa wood running perpendicular to the fins under the skins. The balsa attaches to the top and bottom skins for strength, and they go past the outside edge of the boxes. The 3 boxes were glued together once I set them in the board, so the whole thing ends up one solid block. Not sure, but I think that gives the boxes a bit more strength. I think you could route a couple of small holes all the way to the top glass on a PU board and get the boxes attached to the top, like FCS fins.
FYI… I ran into a guy at the beach named Carlos who said Dave Parmenter is his brother in law. He was very interested in the Compsand aspects and I explained how I made the board. I also told him that the guy who taught me how to make the compsand (CMP) did balsa skins on boards for Parmenter. Carlos has seen those boards. It will be interesting if he tells Dave about the fin setup and then Dave tries it.
soooo…looks interesting. Now would you be able to reduce your “normal” single fin size or use a differently raked/shaped fin? Or do you just slam another of the same on your tried and true original fin set up? Photos look like “normal sized” fins, but with all the drag and slightly offset center line placement, would reducing fin depth add or subtract from performance? It’s not like you’ve added a second fin (like a front tri/twin/etc) set out on the rail where turning and pivot point seemingly would be effected by addition of another mate out there?
hmmm. any ideas or theory. I’m looking and thinking I’ll give it a try (?), some of the info in the thread lends me to believe I most likely don’t know much about fins in general but I’m open to trying most stuff a few times. Need a new longboard soon anyway.
The two boxes are routed in with only one router plate, set down one time, that allows both slots to be routed. So, there is no more time consumed, than setting up for a single fin. I explored the idea of a double fin, as you suggest, and considered the effort and expense, to far outweigh the benefit… You would end up with something similar to the Velzy Butterfly Fin, in any event. Not what I was after. I do not believe the tail of a board is weakened by setting two boxes, or retrofitting two extra boxes, in an existing board.
