I’ve spent the last hour or so searching the archives on this subject with little luck. I recently drew up the Lis 5’5" fish in the surfboard design and construction book. I have since lent it to a good friend who has been in the industry since the late 60’s in Australia.
He is shaping a 5’11" version of this design and is pondering weather to go with a flat bottom or a double concave, similar to the modern thruster, or a flat bottom with V through the tail. He is a primarily short board shaper and is not sure how the three different bottom shapes will affect the ride of a traditional fish shape. The board will be ridden in mainly beach breaks and some point waves. platty.
I’ve built many variations of the fish for more than 30 years. Although a lot depends upon rocker and specific template, I can say flat with vee in the tail of a true Classic fish is horrible as it kills the definitive drive of a
fish. Vee throughout the length of the board is good but very difficult to get right. All-flat bottoms work pretty
good. Subtle single concave just ahead of the front foot flowing to dead flat in the tail works quite well. Double
concaves do well but gets away from the glide and more into the turn of the design. I’ll PM you some rocker numbers
from True Classics and Performance versions for reference.
The originals had a bit of roll through the bottom. the new driving performance fishes with classic outlines (eg. KG) have double concave through the tail. If I was shaping a fish like that i’d either leave it flat or put in a shallow single to double.
PlusOneShaper, I am very interested in building a 5’ 4" fish as a next project and am interested in your input on bottom shapes. My first stupid question is what is Definitive drive? I am interested in your thoughts about full length v and how it works on a fish? Thanks Wood_Ogre
I have a Lis fish circa 2004 that has a slight roll in the nose to flat with a shallow single concave the last third or so that works quite well. I also just aquired an 808Shapes by Makani that starts flat in the nose, single (maybe 1/8" deep at least)a foot back, to double through the tail, with a bit of a vee in the tail that rocks. I also have one I shaped that has a standard flat to vee that rides pretty good too. All have keels, but if I could only keep one, it would be the Makani.
Yes! just what I needed to hear Forward Motion ,swooping pumps, Phenomenal speed! And for the vee through the entire hull ,That is what I expected (Control). Except for choppy days. Well it looks like a good combo for a kite surf board. Its always choppy and speed is regulated by kite size and wind so I am going to guess that a fish with vee in the bottom will make a good kite surf board. And the ability to power turn means no stalling after a jibe= nice arking power turns. Well the board is just waiting for the wind so I should know if it works soon. Thanks , Wood_Ogre
platty: i’m no expert but my 5’10" fish has a flat bottom contour. it has a lovely neutral, predictable feeling that is complimented by the double-foiled keels. on long lined-up walls it feels strong & sure & trustworthy in the way that a good singlefin does.
then again, i enjoy flat bottoms on most of my boards. i like how secure & controllable they feel.
I’ve done a couple of fish with flat to heavy vee, and used glassed on single foiled keels toed in to a couple inches off the nose and 4 degrees cant. It’s the fastest board I have and actually rides really good in knee to waist high surf, then like crap 'till it gets to overhead, where it’s just another animal. When it’s tiny, you can push it around, and it’s very user friendly for tight turns in weak surf. Catches anything. From waist to head high it becomes really hard to turn… like it’s tracking and bogging and not that much fun. At about head high it accelerates like mad and you can bury the rail for some really agressive open face carves. It never spins or skips out of control. Holds and accelerates in steep sections and rides great in the barrel. Hard to ride in choppy big choppy surf, but ok in small slop.
All my current boards are flat or single concave. I had a 6-4 with vee, horrible looking green resin tint, boxy rails, double foiled fins that were too thick. Surfed beautifully.
Looks like my Loehr post modern fish. Except my fins are 10.5 inches from the tail. Vee starts about 18 inches from the tail. Your fins look a little closer to the tail than mine. Got a measurement?
I have access to a 5’5" Lis fish built in 1976. It’s in almost perfect condition. If you want any specific pics, let me know and I’ll take some on Saturday.
I have seen a number of Bushman shaped Nirvanas in the Nirvana factory. I’m not sure what the arrangement was. The board was not built for me. I only supplied the template. Taken from the numbers in the surfboard construction manual posted here at Swaylocks. Bill cleaned up the curve a little through the nose as suggested in another thread on Lis fish and it was streached out to 5’11". platty.
The original Lis fish(70-73) was 5’-0",5’-5"(kneeboard) had a very slight belly thru out the bottom with the exception of the last bit of tail tips,and a mild but noticable concave in the deck.
The stand-ups varied in length,but the bottoms had a belly-ed nose that faded into a mild (un-noticable by an untrained eye)mono concave that extended to the fins…anything past the fins to the tail tips is flat bottom.
