I’m going to take on a paddle building project for a friend - I want to make them a better lightweight carbon adjustable whitewater paddle than the piece of garbage they’re currently using (no core, single sheet of carbon for the blade, so poorly impregnated with resin you can see light through the weave and it’s about as rigid as a business card). Here’s my question:
How the hell do you make a carbon shaft DIY-style? I’ve looked online and seen a few methods ranging from awful-looking but easy to great-looking but you need a NASA lab to do it. Have any of you guys tried your hand at building carbon fiber paddle shafts before?
And if so - here’s the real trick: How do you control the diameter so they perfectly fit together as an adjustable?
The blade is the easy part, and if it comes down to it I can buy the paddle shafts already made at quantity but for the purpose of prototyping I’d like to try it myself
Riight - beause it would be foolish of me to think that a surboard design forum with a bunch of guys who not only build paddleboards, but also have extensive knowledge in vac-bagging, lamination processes and working with carbon fiber and other composites would have any information on paddle making…
Seriously dude, if you don’t have something productive to add, resist the urge to hit that “reply” button. If I wanted to know what other websites to look at for information, I would have asked that.
Now that we’ve gotten that out of the way - anybody have anything USEFUL to add?
If I were taking on this project I would not be making the carbon fiber handle. I would buy the carbon fiber tubing. Its widely available in all sorts of diameters. Here is the first link that comes up when you google it: http://www.rockwestcomposites.com/
While that certainly helps, the issue I’m trying to resolve here is the fact that I’m prototyping this - all those companies that make the tubing like the one you linked want you to buy a bulk order or pay an insane ammount for individual units. I’m not looking to make a $400 prototype here, that completely defeats the purpose of prototyping. Once I have the design I want, then I’ll buy the tubes in bulk to fill bulk orders.
So, let me go ahead and rephrase my question since I obviously wasn’t clear enough
What I am looking for: Advice from folks who have built their own carbon fiber paddles on a simple DIY method
What I am not looking for: Advice from folks who don’t know the answer to my question on what I should be doing instead, or why I shouldn’t be asking this question on swaylocks
I would do as mako suggested. Othe sites like Fiberglast also have it. If you are near a Fiberglass Hawaii; I’m pretty sure they can either get it or may even stock it. I have seen the handle knobs sold individually as well. Can’t remember where. You could always shape one of those from wood. The mechanism for the adjustment might be made or adapted from a painters roller pole. Making the pole I believe would involve wrapping carbon around PVC that has had release agent applied to it, then slipping the PVC out of the Carbon. Finding the right diameters of pipe is the biggest challenge. Determining what weight of Carbon and whether or not you want the shaft tapered. If the blade is as easy as you say it is I won’t comment on that part of the process.
Two pieces of Carbon shaft will not cost $400. Your thinking is flawed if you think the prototype can be done for less money than a production run. The prototype is always wher the exspense is. You recoup your cost if you put it into production.
Who that has actually made a carbon paddle has something to input?
McDing, go ahead and take a look at my response to mako, that applies to you as well. I appreciate the suggestion however that isn’t the question I asked
No need to be pissy. We are here to help. If you don’t want to purchase carbon fiber tubing as I suggested here is how it is made if you so desire or want to waste a bunch of money making something you’d be better off buying: It all starts with a steele rod called a mandrel. It is a highly polished and PERFECT so that the finished tube doesn’t stick to it. Mandrel gets prepped so nothing sticks. Next the mandrel is either wrapped with carbon fiber tape & resin or layers of carbon fiber braided sleeve & resin. Next the mandrel, cloth and resin are wrapped tightly with scrim which is like a plastic tape. Next the whole thing is heated to cure everything. After curing the scrim is removed and the ridges left behind are sanded smooth. There you have it.
No I’ve never made one myself but I know the process and a relative has a business making carbon fiber handlebars and parts for the motorcycle industry…same basic process but he’s adding curves to the mix on many products. For curved tubes he uses expensive aluminum female moulds and a device that inflates inside the braided sleve material until it cures. Then it gets baked. $$$$$$
There are plenty of kayak and canoe building forums where I’m sure there are people doing paddle builds.
Forgive me if I seem pissy - that’s not my intention.
I just don’t expect to come to swaylocks, a site full of DIY-ers that has many times covered the topic of wood paddles, skateboards, boats, and so many things other than surfboards before, and be told to just go buy it instead. To me that’s like telling someone “just go buy a surfboard it’s cheaper and easier” - it defeats the whole purpose of this community. My intention wasn’t to be pissy - just to make it clear that I obviously know purchasing the shafts is an option, but that’s not the route I’m interested in.
The guy who built a few bisect surfboards and chronicled them here also built some car in tubes and I recall the method seemed fairly clever. Was it Shcultz? Or Schuz? Something like that? Check it out via the archives. HTH
I have also tried to make a carbon fiber paddle,multiple times & decided it was not worth it. What I thought would work was to vacuum bag the carbon to a light hollow core (i used pvc irrigation pipe). Problem was trying to get enough layers of cloth on to keep it from cracking in flexing (& then the pvc pipe would snap), but then the shaft would be too stiff (like a steel pipe) & it weighed too much.For proper paddling (research olympic kayakers) the paddle needs to flex during the pull stroke. The second problem I had was the vaccum bagging.I don’t claim to be an expert at it, but I couldn’t figure out how to keep it from “bunching up” on opposite edges when the bag came together.
Just throwing an idea out there - maybe try to find a lightweight dowel (like balsa?) & laminate your carbon to it for the appearance of a carbon paddle, otherewise listen to Mako’s advice. He knows what he’s talking about.
As a final thought - When I couldn’t get the carbon shaft to work, I went to Home Depot & bought a Tree trimmer with a fiberglass shaft (It’s hollow) for about $30 and cut the head off & laminated my carbon blade to it and it works fine. The only down side is that it weighs about twice as much as a carbon paddle.
I “charged” this several years ago. I had nice mandrels, a pretty solid system, 6 molds for the blades, was pretty balls deep. I found one thing out…if paddles were worth $800++ it is a business worth pursuing. A very easy and really great way to build the shafts is to have quality 1 pound eps hot wire cnc into your diameter shafts, 8’ long. Make sure to take the fill pieces from your cuts as they are perfect beds. No bs, these worked the best. Build your shafts around the eps and eat it out with acetone. Or I will sell ALL of my paddle making gear to you. About $20k should come close to recouping the time and money I WASTED on that.
Yes, I’ve built some carbon tubes… Or at least did a half A$$ attempt at it. Then bought an adjustable paddle from a friend (he buys bulk from Asia) for $130.
I read online how to do it… aluminum shaft, wax it, wrap carbon, wrap peal ply, wrap shrink wrap, stick it in the hot box… stick it in a box with dry ice for 1/2 hour… pull the mandrel out of the carbon tube…NOT!!! Tried it again, again… then made mandrel out of XPS and did all the other steps, worked much better but it wasn’t a perfect round or straight. Didn’t matter, I use it for a trecking/tent pole.
The idea above (as CALFEE bikes uses to join their tubes) is to make a two part female mold, lay carbon inside with a balloon, bolt it together and heat it.
Using woven carbon tubing (the fabric is a woven tube) then sliding it over the mandrel is another way or using carbon tape and weaving it (stronger I think) around your mandrel. But… it still comes down to getting it off your mandrel! In production they have BIG HEAVY equipment to pull the parts apart. I have a bench vise and my hands, Ha!
Good Luck! Lots of info online… lot of good, knowledgable people here but maybe not the info you need. Oh, also check RC sites. They make carbon booms.
So it seems like a lot of you are stuck with the “NASA” construction style in your brains - I’m not interested in steel mandrels and high tech pressure molds. I specifically said I’m looking for a DIY method - that would imply something you can do in your backyard, not something you need $20k of materials for.
That said I scoured the links some of you posted and did a bit of research before I came across this guy - this is the exact type of shaft construction I was hoping to hear about. Very simple, very easy - high density foam core gets slid into a stretchable carbon tube which is stretched to fit the shaft, then vac-bagged onto the foam core which can either be left intact for bouyancy or dissolved with acetone.
Seriously people, this is swaylocks. We’re supposed to be a community of DIY-ers… I’m shocked by the ammount of negative nancies who never even considered this style of construction. Hopefully this helps a lot of people who previously thought that making carbon shafts was “too difficult”
This is actually fairly close to the method I just found - using the XPS mandrels is exactly what I’m thinking, especially since that will allow me to make a rocker mold to bend and offset the shaft as desired. Kinda hard to make a bent shaft if you’re using a metal mandrel…
10 year old video. Since that time I can literally buy a carbon shaft, fiberglass blade for $65 dollars wholesale and sell them all day long for $125 and not lift a finger. Just do it yourself and quit whinning about how the sways crew isn’t helping you enough about your journey of disappointment in building your own paddle. Last I checked the sways crew hates SUP’s and all associated with it. I did it with CF sleves and reinforcements. They sell it online. They suck in comparison to a properly tooled manufacturer paddle. Make sure to post some pictures of your adventure and quit blamming sways for your inability to think for yourself. Why all the attitude?
“And if so - here’s the real trick: How do you control the diameter so they perfectly fit together as an adjustable?”
Hi shushka420 -
Having recently completed several long shaft double blade paddles I might be able to help. I consulted the people at Rockwest Composites and found out the specs for a telescoping ‘sleeve’ thing for a two-piece of adjustable paddle is incredibly tight. Too much clearance and the paddle will be floppy at the joint. The proper clearance is .004" between the outer diameter of the sleeve and the inner diameter of the paddle shaft to get a solid fit. With the long double blade paddles I make, it is particularly important to have a wobble-free joint.
I tried wrapping carbon around a shaft I shaped out of urethane foam. It was OK as a one-piece solid shaft but no way spec’d tight enough for a telescoping shaft. Even the carbon fiber tubing I’ve been sourcing is slightly off spec when compared to the stated dimensions but nothing a little bit of sanding won’t fix. I allow about 6" of sleeve on either side of the joint and used simple 5-minute epoxy to glue the sleeve in place after sanding the sleeve and the inside of the shaft in to which it fits. I also masked everything off during gluing to avoid a messy situation.
The source I have for the tubing (a guy on eBay) is not able to supply a telescoping sleeve in the proper diameter so I ended up buying just the sleeve part from Rockwest. They have a good assortment of tubing in various sizes and if you hunt, you can likely find something within a close enough tolerance to work. I also bought some button spring clips from them - those things that pop up through the holes to mate the 2-piece shaft. The holes have to be drilled fairly accurately or there will be some play where the button slops around in the hole.
They do have “paddle shaft” material but the sleeve is listed as bicycle seat post material.
In any case… it will be difficult to fabricate a decent shaft. I researched it and found a website that tells how to use woven tubing material (like a chinese finger puzzle - expands when you push, contracts when you pull.) They recommend that you use a lot of mold release on a mandrel, slide the woven tubing over, wet it out with epoxy, and then use heat shrink tubing to compress the carbon against the mandrel. The next trick is getting it off the mandrel. By the time I would have bought the raw material to do it right, I was able to source some ready made tubing cheaper and better. It is listed as ‘factory seconds’ and does have a few warbles but works great. The price was certainly right compared to full retail.
If you have any specific questions as to what I did, where I purchased material, or total cost, please contact me via PM so we don’t clutter this place up with SUP info.
PS - A local guy had some carbon tubes listed on Craigslist locally. If you want, I could pick up and ship to you. Last I checked, he had a 90"+ piece with a handle on the end that looked like it would work for a paddle shaft.
