Went out yesterday, Kids boogied and skimmed on the beach – 3-4’ perfect conditions wave after wave all the way to the beach just a buddy and myself. Magic board, magic day! – So we get home sit down with a hot drink, Paul says “Have a look at this, I got it in the late 70’s in southern California.” He produces a reddish clear casted Butterfly fin. A really cool looking thing it is – double 6.5" wide base fins set at about 75% or so that go into a standard fin box with a central screw hole. Looks like it would be extremely loose when turning and restrict rail to rail manuvering. It appears to be probably more of a curiousity that anything else, who knows. Does anyone know anything about this unusual part of fin evolution? I think I’ll put it on my speed-platter on a slow day and just see how it changes the way the board acts. Good Surfin’ Rich
Went out yesterday, Kids boogied and skimmed on the beach – 3-4’ perfect > conditions wave after wave all the way to the beach just a buddy and > myself. Magic board, magic day! – So we get home sit down with a hot > drink, Paul says “Have a look at this, I got it in the late 70’s in > southern California.” He produces a reddish clear casted Butterfly > fin. A really cool looking thing it is – double 6.5" wide base fins > set at about 75% or so that go into a standard fin box with a central > screw hole. Looks like it would be extremely loose when turning and > restrict rail to rail manuvering. It appears to be probably more of a > curiousity that anything else, who knows. Does anyone know anything about > this unusual part of fin evolution? I think I’ll put it on my > speed-platter on a slow day and just see how it changes the way the board > acts.>>> Good Surfin’ Rich Dale Velzy has made this type of fin for over 40 years…
Dale Velzy has made this type of fin for over 40 years… Thanx for the insite Dale S. Without the straight from Velzy I still wonder what it’s about. I see by some research that it’s been around since ‘54. Good Surfin’ Rich
Thanx for the insite Dale S.>>> Without the straight from Velzy I still wonder what it’s about. I see by > some research that it’s been around since ‘54.>>> Good Surfin’ Rich Hey, Rich, This should really help… sooo fascinating!! (http://noseriding.com/pages/velzy-home.htm) Dale
Hey, Rich,>>> This should really help… sooo fascinating!! > (http://noseriding.com/pages/velzy-home.htm)>>> Dale I’m gonna send off for one and try it out. Thanx for the tip Dale. Best, Rich
I’m gonna send off for one and try it out.>>> Thanx for the tip Dale.>>> Best, Rich I would like to try one as well but I read the website and it seems like they were being used mostly on longboards. Does anyone know how this fin would perform on a single fin shortboard. I have a 6’ 3" egg and 6"5" diamond tail similar to the board Doc Lausch is making . Thanks for any input.
I would like to try one as well but I read the website and it seems like > they were being used mostly on longboards. Does anyone know how this fin > would perform on a single fin shortboard. I have a 6’ 3" egg and > 6"5" diamond tail similar to the board Doc Lausch is making . > Thanks for any input. I rode a 7’2" single fin with a butterfly fin, rented from Crawford’s shop in Indiatlantic (sp?) Florida sometime in the mid-80’s. Surf in that area at the time was good, solid 4-5 foot, something of a bear of a beachbreak for this Californian point wave guy. Only had two days to use it, and I thought it worked fine. Probably less drag than from a thruster, held great in critical takeoffs (make that lazy Californian point wave guy), very solid. It probably would be moot on a thruster, but since the single fin had single fin rail to rail handling, it didn’t seem to hamper performance. This was the real “v” style butterfly fin, with no long trunk before the “y”. Nels
I would like to try one as well but I read the website and it seems like > they were being used mostly on longboards. Does anyone know how this fin > would perform on a single fin shortboard. I have a 6’ 3" egg and > 6"5" diamond tail similar to the board Doc Lausch is making . > Thanks for any input. smokin resin, The Velzy “V” fin website includes an endorsement from Skip Frye, where he briefly mentions using it on one of his favorite “eggs”… probably not a shortboard, though. Still, for less than $70.00, changing a surfboard`s fin(s) is the least thing a surfer could ever do, in order to produce the greatest possible effect.
smokin resin,>>> The Velzy “V” fin website includes an endorsement from Skip > Frye, where he briefly mentions using it on one of his favorite > “eggs”… probably not a shortboard, though.>>> Still, for less than $70.00, changing a surfboard`s fin(s) is the least > thing a surfer could ever do, in order to produce the greatest possible > effect. Fins Unlimited made several “V” fins for Dale a few years back. We tried several sizes, even going down to about 7" . . . and I tried one of the shallower ones with sith sidebites. F/U did a really great job with what they had to work with but, unfortunately, the fin was a bit fragile and often broke apart at the base. Over all, the “V” fin worked pretty well - it was really neat to be able load up and drive a longboard out of turn. And, the fin was rock solid for nose riding. The only drawback seemed to be with bigger waves (8’ - 10’) and higher speeds. The drag that worked well on smaller waves for nose riding, tended to lift the tail at higher speeds - pretty spooky. The fins that Surf Tech is making for Dale are considerably stronger, and much lighter. I’m not sure if Dale has any in stock right now but anyone who is interested might check with Sean at Surfride in O’side. Or give me a holler and I will check to see what is available!
Fins Unlimited made several “V” fins for Dale a few years back. > We tried several sizes, even going down to about 7" . . . and I tried > one of the shallower ones with sith sidebites. F/U did a really great job > with what they had to work with but, unfortunately, the fin was a bit > fragile and often broke apart at the base. Over all, the “V” fin > worked pretty well - it was really neat to be able load up and drive a > longboard out of turn. And, the fin was rock solid for nose riding. The > only drawback seemed to be with bigger waves (8’ - 10’) and higher speeds. > The drag that worked well on smaller waves for nose riding, tended to lift > the tail at higher speeds - pretty spooky.>>> The fins that Surf Tech is making for Dale are considerably stronger, and > much lighter. I’m not sure if Dale has any in stock right now but anyone > who is interested might check with Sean at Surfride in O’side. Or give me > a holler and I will check to see what is available! I saw one of these on a “Malibu Express” model, but now that think of it, there was a pic. (circa 50’s maybe) in Surfer’s Journal of said fin on a wooden board as well. Definitely been around awhile.
Just hit this thread looking for info on a lovely green Velzy butterfly (now, it turns out, known and sold by Fran Velzy as the “V-fin,” without the “butterfly” name).
The whole story is a bit of a neato bookend or update to this thread.
It turns out Halcyon did get hold of a Velzy V-fin, as he planned to do long ago when this thread was made – a lovely, translucent green one, maybe from the era when the fins still tended to break. I know he did because that’s who graciously lent me a “Butterly”/“V-fin” to try on a noserider I made, the first LB I’ve ever owned or shaped, that has some inherent problems, namely & mainly too much nose rocker.
The board itself is a 9’ Takayama round tail planshape with a faddish (deep, teardrop concave in the nose, entire bottom basically taken from a T. Reynolds 9-3 I rode that I liked, but with the sudden nose concave transition greatly mellowed, and with the more modern tail and rail idea maintained – long speed bead, and a little more tail rocker than the original, maybe a touch more vee exiting the tail). I don’t remember now, but I think when I put the rocker in I also used rocker numbers from the same Takayama from which I lifted the planshape numbers and template. I also chopped an inch off the nose (thinking this might help me get ten over), so technically it’s only 8-11, not 9-0, which I did because one of the local noseriding stars and a friend who has passed, also a skilled & devoted noserider, had Palandranis with a chopped nose like that and clearly loved them.
What’s wrong with the board: it has 2-3 inches too much nose rocker, firmly in the “banana board” camp, and not on purpose. I just put in more than it looked like I was putting in, in the bay. Having never owned a longboard, let alone a noserider, I don’t have an unconsciously developed eye for longboards, or a consciously informed understanding. Coming from shortboarding, I also put a little more tailrocker than was in the original numbers I used as a guide. I was worried I put too much tail rocker right away, but didn’t worry about the noserocker (being clueless). It turned out the tail rocker is great for me, but the nose rocker (and other features) had these results:
- rough/plowy trim
- sudden deceleration when the board gets out in front of the power of the wave, bogging down and planing poorly in the flats and weak parts of the wave
- can’t get both feet very far forward on the nose without perling or spinning out or bogging down so much that the board wants to just stop dead. No doubt poor user competence is a factor in all that, as well, but even as I get more used to putting the board on a higher, more proper line, and setting up short noserides better by stepping forward off a mild reentry-ish top turn – more just a stepping forward and rail change than a reentry – I could get a cheater 5 with toes occasionally over with some fins, but never ten over
- lack of sensitivity (at least to me) as far as performance changes in the front third of the board. Walking forward on the front third of the board feels about the same until you get to the last foot, where weighting and balance are tricky in terms of getting 5 over, but the board does respond well, directionally, on the nose.
The unglassed board is on my instagram under @batfishsantacruz if anybody wants to actually look at it. There’s also a very short clip of me actually riding the V-fin there, too, in the post with the picture of the V-fin on the board (3 boards in the back of the car is the lead photo in the posting).
I tried: 8.5" TK Flex, a Hap Jacobs noserider fin (don’t know the name, don’t remember the depth, but it’s at least 9" and wide), a Rainbow MD3 8", MD 9", and finally a Halcyon “Boomarrang” fin. With all the fins but the last, most of the above issues remained, though the Hap allowed me to step forward with more stability, less sudden deceleration in the first foot of the nose, but the same weird dead spot (a feeling of unresponsiveness, i.e. lack of transitions in response) in the second & third feet of the nose. The TK and MD3 were the most natural for me, turning, and as far as pivot when surfing the middle and tail of the baord, initially, but after I got a little more used to riding the board the Boomarrang felt better to me overall, the best by a good margin; it set a line more sharply, felt faster and smoother on rail, on a good line, allowed me to move forward on the nose as well as or better than the others except the Hap, but it feels more responsive in the “weird dead spot” of the nose than the Hap, and trim speed and planing feel better than the others. I always surf with fin keys on me, and use a hex screw for the fin plate that fits FCS/Futures keys, and with each fin moved it around during sessions based on what I was feeling.
The V-fin crushed all those other fins for me. I had no idea what to expect. Would it make the board want to be way up at a super steep angle when locking in on a rail? Would turning be stiff and like trying to turn a door laying sideways, half submerged in the water?
I hadn’t seen this thread, read Skip Frye’s comments, or ever heard of or seen a fin like it.
But it didn’t do any of the things I wondered if it’d do on just looking at it. It felt very, very natural, and was by far the best of the fins I mention above for this board, greatly improving many of the board’s downsides. The back two feet of the front third came to life, and you can feel the board responding differently, in a way that makes sense when you step forward to the nose and move forward an backward on the nose – although there was also a small change in how easy it was to spend time on the very front 12" of the nose (I’m less likely to get 10 over than with the Hap, or the Boomarrang, for example, though I’ll probably get 5 over about as readily and often when I surf the V-fin more). The trim speed is also more even and smoother, and the board doesn’t die as quickly when leaving the power of the wave and heading into flatter parts of the wave as with the other fins, and the trim on rail on planing speed just feel better overall, smoother, faster, more even, as easy to maneuver and transition rail to rail as with the TK Flex and MD3.
To make an already long story shorter, I found this thread while looking at how to get hold of a V-fin for less than it would cost to have one made by an expert, and discovered that the V-fin is still being made and is available from Fran Velzy (www.velzy.com). It can be purchased from her either direct or via eBay (at this writing, 2019)
The one that Halcyon has is translucent, molded green plastic, and I think might be from the era when these had a tendency to break, so I’m pretty pleased with myself for not damaging it.
And I ordered one & plan to ride it along with the Boomarrang on my goofy board whose flaws are now strengths for me as a beginner (mainly that it’s easier and more natural to turn for me, a shortboarder who is now a beginning longboarder, stoked on having another option that opens up spots & makes peaks fun that I would normally never ride).
That was the main reason for this follow-up: to let it be known that this fin is great for boards like mine, and that it’s still available to buy new.
Big thanks to Halcyon for improving surfing life with his ever-in-evidence generosity and the Boomarrang and V-fin.
Thanks, too, to Fran Velzy, who called me back after I found the right phone number on a web page I can’t seem to relocate now. The page had the number, but seemed maybe pretty old, possibly outdated. What a great thing to be able to get in touch with her and find out the fin is still being made, and maybe better (less apt to destruct) than the one I already like.
Not gonna read this. Just gonna copy and paste in normal format.
--------’
[Quote=batfische]Just hit this thread looking for info on a lovely green Velzy butterfly (now, it turns out, known and sold by Fran Velzy as the “V-fin,” without the “butterfly” name).
The whole story is a bit of a neato bookend or update to this thread.
It turns out Halcyon did get hold of a Velzy V-fin, as he planned to do long ago when this thread was made – a lovely, translucent green one, maybe from the era when the fins still tended to break. I know he did because that’s who graciously lent me a “Butterly”/“V-fin” to try on a noserider I made, the first LB I’ve ever owned or shaped, that has some inherent problems, namely & mainly too much nose rocker.
The board itself is a 9’ Takayama round tail planshape with a faddish (deep, teardrop concave in the nose, entire bottom basically taken from a T. Reynolds 9-3 I rode that I liked, but with the sudden nose concave transition greatly mellowed, and with the more modern tail and rail idea maintained – long speed bead, and a little more tail rocker than the original, maybe a touch more vee exiting the tail). I don’t remember now, but I think when I put the rocker in I also used rocker numbers from the same Takayama from which I lifted the planshape numbers and template. I also chopped an inch off the nose (thinking this might help me get ten over), so technically it’s only 8-11, not 9-0, which I did because one of the local noseriding stars and a friend who has passed, also a skilled & devoted noserider, had Palandranis with a chopped nose like that and clearly loved them.
What’s wrong with the board: it has 2-3 inches too much nose rocker, firmly in the “banana board” camp, and not on purpose. I just put in more than it looked like I was putting in, in the bay. Having never owned a longboard, let alone a noserider, I don’t have an unconsciously developed eye for longboards, or a consciously informed understanding. Coming from shortboarding, I also put a little more tailrocker than was in the original numbers I used as a guide. I was worried I put too much tail rocker right away, but didn’t worry about the noserocker (being clueless). It turned out the tail rocker is great for me, but the nose rocker (and other features) had these results:
-
rough/plowy trim
-
sudden deceleration when the board gets out in front of the power of the wave, bogging down and planing poorly in the flats and weak parts of the wave
-
can’t get both feet very far forward on the nose without perling or spinning out or bogging down so much that the board wants to just stop dead. No doubt poor user competence is a factor in all that, as well, but even as I get more used to putting the board on a higher, more proper line, and setting up short noserides better by stepping forward off a mild reentry-ish top turn – more just a stepping forward and rail change than a reentry – I could get a cheater 5 with toes occasionally over with some fins, but never ten over
-
lack of sensitivity (at least to me) as far as performance changes in the front third of the board. Walking forward on the front third of the board feels about the same until you get to the last foot, where weighting and balance are tricky in terms of getting 5 over, but the board does respond well, directionally, on the nose.
The unglassed board is on my instagram under @batfishsantacruz if anybody wants to actually look at it. There’s also a very short clip of me actually riding the V-fin there, too, in the post with the picture of the V-fin on the board (3 boards in the back of the car is the lead photo in the posting).
I tried: 8.5" TK Flex, a Hap Jacobs noserider fin (don’t know the name, don’t remember the depth, but it’s at least 9" and wide), a Rainbow MD3 8", MD 9", and finally a Halcyon “Boomarrang” fin. With all the fins but the last, most of the above issues remained, though the Hap allowed me to step forward with more stability, less sudden deceleration in the first foot of the nose, but the same weird dead spot (a feeling of unresponsiveness, i.e. lack of transitions in response) in the second & third feet of the nose. The TK and MD3 were the most natural for me, turning, and as far as pivot when surfing the middle and tail of the baord, initially, but after I got a little more used to riding the board the Boomarrang felt better to me overall, the best by a good margin; it set a line more sharply, felt faster and smoother on rail, on a good line, allowed me to move forward on the nose as well as or better than the others except the Hap, but it feels more responsive in the “weird dead spot” of the nose than the Hap, and trim speed and planing feel better than the others. I always surf with fin keys on me, and use a hex screw for the fin plate that fits FCS/Futures keys, and with each fin moved it around during sessions based on what I was feeling.
The V-fin crushed all those other fins for me. I had no idea what to expect. Would it make the board want to be way up at a super steep angle when locking in on a rail? Would turning be stiff and like trying to turn a door laying sideways, half submerged in the water?
I hadn’t seen this thread, read Skip Frye’s comments, or ever heard of or seen a fin like it.
But it didn’t do any of the things I wondered if it’d do on just looking at it. It felt very, very natural, and was by far the best of the fins I mention above for this board, greatly improving many of the board’s downsides. The back two feet of the front third came to life, and you can feel the board responding differently, in a way that makes sense when you step forward to the nose and move forward an backward on the nose – although there was also a small change in how easy it was to spend time on the very front 12" of the nose (I’m less likely to get 10 over than with the Hap, or the Boomarrang, for example, though I’ll probably get 5 over about as readily and often when I surf the V-fin more). The trim speed is also more even and smoother, and the board doesn’t die as quickly when leaving the power of the wave and heading into flatter parts of the wave as with the other fins, and the trim on rail on planing speed just feel better overall, smoother, faster, more even, as easy to maneuver and transition rail to rail as with the TK Flex and MD3.
To make an already long story shorter, I found this thread while looking at how to get hold of a V-fin for less than it would cost to have one made by an expert, and discovered that the V-fin is still being made and is available from Fran Velzy (www.velzy.com). It can be purchased from her either direct or via eBay (at this writing, 2019)
The one that Halcyon has is translucent, molded green plastic, and I think might be from the era when these had a tendency to break, so I’m pretty pleased with myself for not damaging it.
And I ordered one & plan to ride it along with the Boomarrang on my goofy board whose flaws are now strengths for me as a beginner (mainly that it’s easier and more natural to turn for me, a shortboarder who is now a beginning longboarder, stoked on having another option that opens up spots & makes peaks fun that I would normally never ride).
That was the main reason for this follow-up: to let it be known that this fin is great for boards like mine, and that it’s still available to buy new.
Big thanks to Halcyon for improving surfing life with his ever-in-evidence generosity and the Boomarrang and V-fin.
Thanks, too, to Fran Velzy, who called me back after I found the right phone number on a web page I can’t seem to relocate now. The page had the number, but seemed maybe pretty old, possibly outdated. What a great thing to be able to get in touch with her and find out the fin is still being made, and maybe better (less apt to destruct) than the one I already like.
[/quote]
You can get a 1970s copy called a Butterfly Fin, much the same shape and concept of a split fin for left and right
I was given one of those to try. I was less than impressed. Anyone in my area want to borrow it feel free to come by and give it a go.
Thanks for reposting, Huck – I’ll try to figure out how to format like that in the future (this reply being an attempt/test).
Surffoils – I saw that red edition, I think, and maybe the same run was the source for the fin originally discussed in the OP? The one Rich had is green – I wonder if that identifies it as being from a different run or different maker, or the same maker. If the fin I just ordered from Fran Velzy (floral pattern inlay and Velzy logos on it in the eBay listing) is different, I might be disappointed. I want the same fin. I sent the pic to myself so I could post it here (attached). I’ll also try to upload the short clip I mentioned, not sure if I can do that. Yeah: just tried to upload the clip…can’t put it in this post but will see if making another post will make that possible.
In the clip, you can see the water plowing off the front/middle of the board, in front of the sweet spot, and probably it does that with any fin – it just doesn’t feel as crappy with the butterfly fin. Probably if I can make the clip viewable you can see from my reactions that it’s not feeling like that to me, riding.
I rode the same board with a 9.5" TK Flex yesterday, and it did some things better, but it felt sluggish again – it doesn’t feel sluggish with the butterfly/V-fin.
Ace, dunno if you’re local (I’m in SC), or if that red fin is from the same run/source as the green one I rode, but I would’ve wanted to buy or trade for it if so. Still would be interested if it turns out the fin I ordered is different from the green one.
Yeh: I can’t upload the clip, but here’s a link to the post that has it in it: https://www.instagram.com/p/BwD_KGBgYo9/
In the Velzy display at SHACC we have the original molds he made for the Butterly fin.
Just an idea that the Man came up with. Not necessarily a good one or functional. More a novelty than anything else. People are still fascinated by it and just won’t let go. Many say it is the greatest thing since??? There will always be those devotees of an obvious Bilbo who swear that there is nothing better. Not unlike the Thrailkill musings(ie Duo-fin or Twinger whatchmacallit)…
Inquisitive minds and tinkerers are always toying with the variables, thats part of what keeps it fresh and fun. There are no right or wrong answers, just different routes to find the stoke. The opinions that seem the least valid to me are the ones backed up by zero personal hands on experience. I’m always curious to read reviews, positive or negative, by the guys who have actually ridden a design.
+1 Huck, I’m in that party of highly motivated experimentalists who do it to keep it fresh and fun. Irrespective of who did what or when or how well they did it.
I can always do better than them, or much worse, but I’ll never know unless I give it a shot.
Here’s my take on the V-Fin, Butterfly Fin, sitting in the Universal Fin Box I helped design and along side the start of my Incredibly Efficient Flipper Design.
The Butterfly fin had approx 60 degree angle between fins and came in a range of translucent colours as well as white.
