If your AKU or Shape3D cutting file does not work with an “off-the-rack,” commercially available blank, you may not get what you need from a CNC shaping service/company.
This is incorrect. Poly blanks are often customized by the manufacturer changing the rockers. EPS blanks are quite simple to make just about any blank since all they require is a 2-axis hotwire cnc.
Here you can see the cnc operator knocking down the stringer on some custom made EPS blanks while the cnc machine is milling another blank. It’s funny to think of how often the hand-held electric planer is used with surfboard cnc shaping.
This would be true if the CNC Companies started with rectangular EPS slab blanks. Very few if any use rectangular slab blanks — they are really just cookie cutter services.
So far, only one “machinist” has offered a “custom” CNC-shape from an EPS rectangular slab. And he was particularly uncooperative, with poor communications skills.
Reality check. Having a commercial PU blank manufacturer create custom rocker/foil profiles is much too pricey for DIY shapers and designers like most here at Sways.
2-axis hotwire set-ups have limited 3D and contour capabilities. And can get pricey when you want more than rocker/foil profile and 2 halves.
My experience has been that many of these CNC surfboard services try to fit customer design profiles into commercially available blanks profiles. Sometimes this requires a blank considerably more expensive than a rectangular slab blank.
Then there is the question of whether or not PU blanks maintain consistent density when you have to cut deeper than the denser outer layer.
These are just a few of the problems encountered with commercial CNC services (machine type, software compatability, type of blanks used, available foam densities, adaptability for non-traditional designs, effective/useful communications with customers…)
I have contacted well over 20 CNC shaping services, some surfboard specific some not. And my CAD guy, jrandy, has way more than a little experience.
Any surfboard cnc machine can mill the file out of a block of foam. In fact, the cheaper machines can only use blocks.
For EPS, there are a couple reasons why making a custom blank is beneficial.
- Cost - the solid hotwire cutoffs are easily recyclable (free to dispose) vs. all the material being turned into powder which needs to be taken to the dump (not free).
- Time - a solid block takes much longer to cut. Often the block is thicker than the cutter length so it can take 2 or 3 times as long to cut doing subsequently deeper cuts on each side to get to the correct depth.
No, the above is not true. PU rocker changes have always been free.
That is a lot, perhaps you are not approaching them correctly. Keep in mind that on average they are only making $45-55 per cut so be very conscious of their time.
You should send your first email with your file attached & indicate foam type, quantity, stringer type, density. You will also want to ask cost and turnaround time.
This knocks everything out at once and prevents unnecessary back and forth. If you start emailing or calling back and forth a bunch they will not want to communicate anymore since it’s just not worth the $45 to them.
Very few commercial CNC services use or offer rectangular slabs.
I’ve not seen “custom” rocker/foil profiles offered for free for single blank orders in commercial blank catalogs (US Blanks, et. al.)
My experience is that customer email exchanges with these CNC services get short 2-sentence responses that contain minimal useful information. Communications typically stop after 2 email messages.
I make decisions about who I do business with based on how a company responds to small one-off requests. If I am not important enough for one small order, they don’t need my business for larger orders. I don’t need freebies from anybody. But I do expect polite, useful, responsive communications.
I have 26 years of professional experience as a public consultant and educator. To do that, you have to be able to communicate effectively with people who have 8th grade educations up to Ph.Ds. And I was very good at my job.
BTW I am surprised you have enough “spare time” to post on Swaylocks during business hours…
Almost forgot, shaping quality is the unknown variable when having your design CNC shaped.
I had my various XLPE, Coanda-Channel Bodyboard/Paipo prototypes cut by 3 different CNC shapers/businesses.
- The first was mediocre, the cuts were a little rough but usable.
- The second business’ cuts were very rough/poor quality and required extensive hand sanding to fix.
- The third was a 22-yr-old young man with a side CNC business on his farm in Idaho. His cuts were flawless and only needed minor clean-up sanding.
The first two CNC companies were businesses with years of CNC shaping experience.
The third, on the farm in Idaho, was a newcomer to the CNC shaping business and is an indisputable master.
Done well, CNC can produce incredible results.
Bottom line, not all CNC shaping businesses are created equal. The final product may not match your expectations.
Again buyer beware.
Were any of those 3 cuts done at a cnc center that specializes in surfboards and using Shape3D/Aku?
I see you still have plenty of spare time during business hours.
AKU representative recently tried but was unable to design the boards. His choice, not requested by me.
At the time this design was created, George Gall — pro surfboard shaper, mathematician and engineer — said he couldn’t design the channel with Shape3D, even with the input of Shape3D’s creators.
He said the CNC machines he used couldn’t cut the channel anyway. After that, he said he didn’t have the time to shape this design for me with an alternate technology I developed for hand rather than CNC shaping.
There is no way to know what any given “center’s” end product will look like for a specific design. Depends on the machine type, bits vs. wheels/disks, and especially the skills of the tool path programmer and machine operator.
Doesn’t really matter because a kid in a barn did it flawlessly last year without AKU or Shape3D. First Surfcraft he ever cut.
Enough said.
@stonburner just say you’re not a fan of CNC machines and move on with your day.
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Creager you would be very much mistaken.
I like quality customer service and the accuracy and precision of well done CAD work and CNC shaping.
Thanks for taking time to provide insight and enlightenment.
BTW the last post was 2 “days” old…
@stoneburner yet you’re probably still all fired up about it. Sorry my timing doesn’t meet your standards. And thanks for the BS rant on CNC machines, my IQ is almost down to your level. Go snake some waves and scream at some groms.
Third post since joining over 2 years ago.
Trolling jewels…
Shape3D certainly has the ability to design your channel - it would just be done as a 3D layer. The machine operator would cut the bottom of your board with the regular surfboard bit, then do a tool change and cut the 3dlayer (channel) with a straight bit similar to the ones they use for cutting finboxes. And accuracy is to the thousandth of an inch or better.
Your post would be better titled “Problems I’ve Had Getting Surfboards CNC’d on Woodworking Machines”.
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@stoneburner sorry I don’t devote as much time on this forum or the internet for you. Your mom must have really good wifi in her basement.
Divert and evade.
George Gall, who used Shape3D with CNC “at that time,” said it could not do my design. He said he had communicated with the Vilmins about it.
I will accept the word of a respected pro surfboard builder, mathematician and engineer as fact…
I am well aware of what Shape3D can do presently. Thomas Vilmin voluntarily demonstrated (his offer) for me what Shape3D can do now, over 7 months ago in a public forum. He also told me he could help me with my “new design.” And he did recently.
The current problems have been with builders who use Shape3D and bailed because my design was to much work to build and ship.
This thread would have ended after my first one-sentence post.
Again, it seems like the issue is how you’re approaching the job order rather than it being too much work for a surfboard cnc cutting center. If you want to send 20+ emails back and forth asking questions prior to the order, then you will need to pay additional for that time.
Modern surfboard cnc cutting centers are more than capable, your channel is rather simple compared to more difficult jobs like foil boards that include both 3d layers + foil tracks cut like below:
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Now distortion. LMAO
Complete display quality builds require pro glassing too.
You know nothing about how my channel is designed.
Methinks thou doth protest too much…
OK, multiple posts flagged by multiple members, so as HMIC (head moderator in charge) I will chime in my 2 cents.
I can edit, ban, delete, or grab my popcorn and enjoy the shitshow lol. I gravitate toward the latter.
After all, everybody posting in this thread is keeping it pretty civil, nobody is threatening, or hurling profanities, and I actually got a few long overdue chuckles out of a comment or two. Had it been otherwise, I might be inclined to intervene. But continue on as the gentlemen you are, more or less, and all will be forgiven.
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