I’m a bit confused by a lot of new boards coming out with concave decks. What is the point of them. Is it just so you can have a thinner board in the centre, with very boxy rails? And if so why would this be desired. So far i’ve been a fan of reducing rail volume for response and hiding it in the middle for paddle power. But i’m just a backyard hack!
Discuss away!!
Trying to one up FeralDave in the photography aspect of presenting boards. It is going to be hard but here goes…
When Bert first posted his concave deck boards I had finished five boards (backyarder too). His explination was that a flat bottom is faster but with a flexible board and concave deck that the bottom actually morphs as we add turning forces. Well...I tried one, I can't say that I can feel the board morphing but I love it so much that everyboard since (over 20) have concave decks.
So, why do I love them? I'm a part of the board! It's as if I'm in it not balanced on top of it. My rails aren't boxy, the thickest part is about 4" in from the edge, I then drop off quickly to a rail that's about 3/4" thick. I did begin with thick rails on my first concave deck boards (all longboards) but found that with thinner rails that I had more control. I also 'step' the nose and tail of my boards to lighten them and keep the thickness in the middle for paddle power also. I doubt that I could convince any 'pro' shaper to make a board for me like I make but I wouldn't have anything else!
So, my reason for makeing concave decks... comfort and improved board control.
Les
Paddling comfort for large man cans or beer gut.
Superior traction and foot control for hard bucket throwing cut backs and bustin big airs.
Cuts out the middleman, as in surfers heels, and places a jolly green giant heel dent at the manufacturer level.
Bandwagon hype. sells more boards, first on my block to have one.
Jeff Alexander(shaper/patent holder of Gemini surfboards) was doing it 15 years ago. What is so new about it?
[I'd ask the skaters the same question also , mr. pirate ....and perhaps ...George Greenough , back in 1965 ['children of the sun' movie]
I made a couple for myself [not kneeboards] , and I liked them .
'Dr. Les ', good on ya !
...any chance you could post a few photos of some of them , too , please ?
cheers !
ben
A timely thread Cap’n, as I’m in the process of turning out my next personal board - a 6’0" based loosely on the Proctor Lil Rascal 2. He put a concave deck on that model and described the feeling of being closer to the wave, more in tune with it or something. I think I’ve read Pridmore describing a similar sensation, or maybe it was Greg Webber.
Anyway it sounded kinda fun to me, so I was thinking of trying it out myself. The board’s now at the stage where I would have to start shaping the concave, but I think I might hold off for a couple of days to see if any of the Swalock’s luminaries have an opinion on the subject. I’m also a big fan of paddling power, especially on smaller boards. I’m not getting any younger or fitter.
I was also planning on putting in a shallow concave on the bottom, going out to flat between the fins, and giving it a McKee-inspired quad set-up. Would concave deck + concave bottom = weaker board do you think? When does too much concave become just plain stupid?
My intuition tells me they will snap easier. Anyone have evidence, pro or con?
[img_assist|nid=1064910|title=#27 profile|desc=Step deck nose and tail|link=none|align=left|width=0|height=0]Chippy... this shows the step deck nose and tail.
And this one, look close, shows concave deck with 'thin' rails. It's tough getting the right angle to be able to see the deck and rails.
Maybe tomorrow I'll take a few more shots from the rear to get more of a cross sectional view.
[img_assist|nid=1064909|title=#27 SUP deck|desc=SUP with concave deck and thin rails|link=none|align=left|width=0|height=0]
There may be questions about materials....so - 1 lb. EPS core with 2" of 2 lb. EPS on the rails, Palownia (3/32") bottom, deck is Palownia/cherrywood/balsa, solid rails of cherrywood/palownia. self made carbonfiber hand hold. PeteC gortex vent. D-Fin (cutaway), works GREAT, is G10 and balsa.
Les
"...HELP me doctor , I can't SEE [the pictures] ! "
I know! How can I get them bigger????
thanks huck !
how DO you do that , by the way , you photo magician you !!
Concave decks?...been around forever , but seem to be a current trend. The main advantage is, they lower your centre of gravity.....DVS had Joe Engel riding concave decks around the time he won Bells and the pro-juniors. They do work, and will not effect the strength of the board, if its glassed properly.....
I remember Bert Berger’s explanation of the “morphing.” He said to take a piece of paper and “form” a concave deck. Now take the paper and flex it as it would during a turn. What it does is make the bottom turn into a concave. He points out that the curve at the rail increases. Concave when you need it. Kind of revelatory. To work, though, the board has to flex significantly. He combined the concave deck with wide thin shapes.
My question is how does it affect paddling??? As I am now part of the over 50, weekend warrior crew, wave catching ability is paramount for me…
Welcome to the 50+ group llilibel! I remember when I turned 50 or there abouts...What the heck is all this achyness? I didn't do anything extra yesterday!? Ha! You learn to work more at keeping fit.
I really like my concave deck boards for paddling, like I said before it makes the board feel as if I'm part of it rather than balancing on top of it.
LEs
…concave decks on PU foam do not resist the dent destruction on a less than 2 1/2 thick potato chip
and you know, most chips are 2 1/8 2 1/4…
I remember reading somewhere on Sways a while back that concave decks were a partial response to lighter EPS blanks. The lighter boards could have lesss volume and so decks were losing their dome and rails their volume. Because flat bottoms with flat decks are more susceptible to flex and snapping, concaves were put in the decks for rigidity purposes.
[quote="$1"]
...concave decks on PU foam do not resist the dent destruction on a less than 2 1/2 thick potato chip
and you know, most chips are 2 1/8 2 1/4...
[/quote] ....if more impact strengthis required , it should be glassed with a stomp patch.....its not an issue when you get away from P/U foam.
Hey Red.
The typical wide deck concave probably has negligible effect on rigidity, although any measurable change in vertical skin foil thickness changes stiffness…
Now… Narrow 1" wide x 1/2" deep deck channels will stiffen thing up… Like the ones on Stretch boards…
I’ve built a couple with a wide deck concave, and I’d have to say the lowering of the center of gravity feeling (due to the very subtle deck concave) is nothing I personally could put a finger on… Not saying it ain’t happening…Now if you had a deck concave like a George Greenough spoon… I’d say YES, you’re as low as it gets…
What is more noticeable is the elevated position of the heel of your foot being ever so slightly higher than your toes giving you slightly more leverage when weighing your heels… The only other significant feeling I noticed is a more secure overall footbed feeling that overly-domed convex decks seem to lack…
In general : I’d say a board with soft shallow deck concave would tend to be more flexible than a heavily convex domed deck, but probably on par with a flat deck of equal thickness…
I like the feel (under foot) of concave decks, but I haven’t done enough of them to be sure of which is ultimately better…
They also tend to leave you with a board that has somewhat fuller, if not boxy rails… And that’s something I don’t personally like in high wind kite-surfboards…
Cosmetically speaking: On wider boards the concave deck makes the board’s outline look fat… For whatever the hell that matters…
heres one i just done and sealed it and a very cleaver arse put his hands on it so this pic goes on the wall to remind the
A holes.
oh yea rail channells concave cork deck all good concave decks been around a long time.
**cheers huie
**
Looking good Huie
