My rails will look like the inside of the airplane’s fusalage
I told you so… check out the carbon stitching around the rails. Puerly for aesthetics, maybe slightly functional. I plan on sanding the rough edges of the carbon where it meets the deck. The criss-cross of each stitch bridges the internal ribs in the rail. Next steps: final coat of glass, sanding, then gloss clear coat. Then done!!!
Don’t be a Dumb-ass like me
Hey…
If you don’t know John that well don’t dis him online like this…
Blane was just saying what alot of us here (in Hawaii) would’ve said about the same “hey bro(brah) can you spare me a dime” request.
John would’ve just put the board on display for the swaylock crew and shipped it back to you when it was over…
I don’t think he was expecting to keep it…
What you did was a remarkable engineering feat that should be on display in honor of your effort you deserve that.
I think John would’ve respected any request you had regarding the handling of the board during the showing.
Just like Paul’s stuff when he took it down there to show the crew…
I think you owe John an apology
he wasn’t trying to take your work
geez
I know you might not see this since if you did you wouldn’t have said it but “Sorry. THIS IS MY SURFBOARD!!!” seems pretty rude to me. Mike Paler is Swaylock and the Big Sur campout is an annual thing. He even says “for display purposes only” meaning noone’s going to ride it. I think he was polite as possible. He complimented you on your board. Was offering to show off your work to the Swaylocks crew in person on his “dime.”
If you really have a problem with it you could have been polite and just said “I’m not comfortable in loaning out my board to someone I don’t know. Thanks for the offer though!” or maybe “I could only think about displaying my board at the event if I was there in person and unfortunatley I do not have the money to spend on airfare at this time. Thanks for the offer.” (Leaving the offer to possibly fly you with your board out up to him to offer.)
Does it really put you out to be polite back even if you thought his request was unreasonable?
John didn’t even break his cool after your comment. Just replied with another polite post.
I also think your emphasis on “WITH” and “YOUR” were unnecessary and sound rude as well.
In my opinion, if you see something that bugs you, a private message, a post, a claim about how great someone’s design is, just ignore it. Just blow them off like John did to you. Here you are stewing at some imagined slight and he’s probably already forgotten all about it.
In CarveNalu’s case, personally I really hate it when people I don’t know call me bro/brah cause I just know they are going to follow it up with some kind of imposition. I agree that the guy who PM’d him should have worded his message differently and the fact that he went back and reread his post and saw nothing wrong just goes to show his character/upbringing.
However, was it really worth all the crap that followed? Wouldn’t ignoring the request because it was not polite enough have saved everyone a lot of drama? It really wasn’t even an argument worth venting to the public since neither one of you could be the bigger man and the argument wasn’t even interesting.
A little politeness goes a long way.
To everyone:
All the “my design is better than your design,” or “I’ve been doing this for 50 years, you’re a kook,” or “that will never work,” or “20 noobs came down to MY spot today”… God, get over yourselves already. Who do you think you are impressing? I see that crap and a little mental check goes against that person in my head and my eyes start to gradually just skip past their posts. If you really want to warn people off what you know to be a bad idea you could say “I tried this 10/20/30 years ago and we didn’t have very good results,” or “I think you might have problems with this aspect of your design (then explain).”
I used to think surfers were laid back (usually potheads or at least the ones I knew), happy go lucky guys. My opinion has definatley changed. If your mission is to scare off new surfers, put down other designers while pimping your own product (while embarassing yourself to onlookers), and generally make asses of yourselves mission accomplished 
To me Swaylocks isn’t about pimping product, flaming other’s to enlarge your E-peen, or all the other stuff that just brings everyone down.
It’s about “Build it, surf it, take pictures, post about it here.”
At least, that’s why I come here.
What you did was a remarkable engineering feat that should be on display in honor of your effort you deserve that.
Sorry guys, but this build is NOT a remarkable engineering feat.
LP’s response to John is disappointing…posting here for all to see is disturbing. Get help (try the book Learned Optimism).
For the rest of you…some of you guys should be ashamed…way too much ass-sucking on this thread…too much ass-sucking has negative side affects…as we now all see.
kai,
i could not agree more, everything you said.
hows the blue/yellow/green fin/s coming along?
lp, your board is a really impressive construction, how many hours total have you spent on it?
oh yeah, go on lend it to john, it’ll only be for a few days anyway and if i remember rightly don’t you do more kitesurfing/skimming anyway.
tom
Let me straiten some things out…
FIRST: I originally wanted to make that post on a different thread but it was locked. Thats how it ended up here. Im sorry John if I offended you. When I made the post I did it in haste and I did not notice that your last name was included in the post. I have since removed it. I was not “stewing at some imagined slight” I just wanted to reply to CarveNalu’s topic with what I thought was a similar experience. Now, let’s see the situation through my eyes… Throughout the past years I’ve gotten MANY emails of what seems like totaly BOGUS requests and offers. I lumped John’s request in with the rest because I am sick of them. I guess thats why I came off so rude. I somewhat intended to be rude because this board is my baby and I don’t care who you are and what your reputation may be, Im not just gonna pack it up and send it off to someone I don’t know on the other side of the country for some people to gaulk at. If the people want to gaulk, then bring your laptop and a link to swaylocks!!! I like talking to others about my projects but I don’t get pride in showing off or forcing my project as topic of conversation. When people see some of my airplanes which I have designed I often get: “Can you make me one of those?” or “How much is it” I tell them don’t make anything for anyone but me, however If you want to make one yourself, I will be glad to help you. For example last night I ignored glassing my surfboard so I could help my neighbor down the street make a mold for a fiberglass engine cowling on his plane, I used the same teqnique I learned from making my rails. In addition if I did sell an airplane, The price I would expect for it would be so outrageous that you could buy 5 airplanes from china for the same price. Also the chinese planes are tested and proven designs, where as mine are just my kooky self expression of what I think a plane could look like. They are totaly unproven designs, and all of them have aerodynamic flaws. Similarly, Im sure this sufboard will have hydrodynamic flaws.
SECOND: THIS IS NOT A PIMP YOUR BOARD THREAD!!! and I HATE ASS KISSING. In fact nothing pisses me off more than ass kissing posts because nothing gets acomplished by it. I made this thread for feed-back, mainly NEGETIVE FEEDBACK!!! I have to make a rude off topic post to finaly get the type of feedback im looking for!!
THIRD: Why do I want NEGETIVE FEEDBACK?? Well, right from the start I clearly stated that I am not a good shaper. How can you be a good shaper with only 5 boards under your belt? Ive made a few clark foam boards and honestly they all came out like shit except for the last one which was halfway decent. I was inspired by Paul Jenson’s board’s and I figured that I could make one like an airplane wing, using similar construction teqniques that I use for airplanes, balsa and carbon frame ups. I have no idea how it will hold up. It seems really strong, but maybe the strength is in the wrong places. Throughout the construction, If I get negetive feedback along with an alternative solution, I can compare my method with someone else’s method and use which ever is best. PLUS I LEARN FROM SOMEONE ELSE’S OPINION!!!
FOURTH: IM NOT TRYING TO SHOW OFF OR BUMP MY EGO!!! My original concept of this board was quite simple. I realized that it was flawed because someone gave me NEGATIVE FEEDBACK and told me that my frame would crush. I realized that was true. Thats why I added the internal carbon rod framework. Thanks!! Since then realized how this project could broaden my knowledge and experience with wierd and wacky types of construction which I could apply to other areas. My next project is going to be an eps/divinycell/kevlar full contact combat airplane (like demolition derby) (and Thanks to AlanPage for the inspiration with the kite board construction technique) also, I couldn’t make that airplane without what I learned from making the kevlar rails. Im just exploring my style and sharing it with the world. Isn’t that what it’s all about??
Now that you have my honest opinion on this situation, lay it on me!!!
Once again, Im deeply sorry to ANYONE I might have offended.
by the way, I love a good day of skim boarding 100 times more then a GREAT day of surfing. I don’t do any kite-boarding.
Thanks for clarifying.
Just an FYI, the Big Sur event is a big Swaylocks get together on a campground on the Cali coast…people bring themselves and their boards and talk story for a couple of days. Its a good thing but maybe you didnt know about it. John is a really good guy and Im fairly certain he wouldnt do anything unethical. Having said that, I dont know why he made the offer to ship your board over…personally I wouldnt make that offer and as the board owner, I wouldnt take it either.
I made this thread for feed-back, mainly NEGETIVE FEEDBACK!!!
Ok then, Im pretty good at that…HA!
I was with you on this project until you went hollow rails. There are benefits to coreing some structures. There are benefits to making male ‘sacraficial’ molds (rail foam).
A lot of guys dont realize this but when you shape a foam surfboard, youre shaping/making a male mold. When Bert makes one of his boards, the ultralight core is a mold for ease of mfg. Why would Bert intentionally introduce a material that can hold water inside the board? Because it is a necessary evil.
So, IMO, you made a big mistake when you took the shaped foam rails off the frame. They weigh practically nothing and make perfect molds for your laminate.
I’d have to assume that you didnt want to take any simple paths in making your board…in fact you took very difficult paths in just about every aspect.
Some eastern phylosophers believe that the difficult path teaches you more. Which is good, dare I say ideal, to this forum. Its been entertaining and educational…Kudos for that.
What you did was a remarkable engineering feat that should be on display in honor of your effort you deserve that.
well other than Brewer’s wooden surfboard made of over 400?4000? thin pieces if veneer, this has got to a record for the most small pieces glued togethor to buildout a board. Hand wrapped carbon cord inserted balsa, reminds of of building something out of toothpicks. So I’m sure like alot of us here we’re axiously awaiting her first christianing ride reports and how she holds up over time. Kind of goes against the whole “simplicity” concept.
I think it could’ve been handled better… definitely not here.
When John or Chip or any others here PM’d me for stuff I just sent it to them . I was more than happy to send stuff, so maybe I have a different viewpoint on this subject than you so I apologise if my viewpoint isn’t yours. Sending a board may have been different story but in my case I would’ve been honored to have my work reviewed by guys like Phillips or Thraikill. And in that way you are no different than 90% of the beat my chest ain’t I grand posters here, as the only person with any balls to actual follow through with a swaylocks board in all these years has been Ambrose. Surfer’s yes indeed are a selfish breed…
As far as criticism
As someone in the finance/lending business, if by chance you have gone broke and cannot pay your bills as a poor college student, I would say that that’s a poor start in building your credibility to anyone like me you may want to fund future projects by a home etc etc once you leave school. Its a passionate project/hobby for sure but in the end it’s just a hobby and if it causes you to go broke before you actually get started than I think you should re-evaluate what kind of impact these kind of pursuits and thinking will have to your financial future. In short it’s an interesting and intriguing project but not worth going broke for in my opinion and possibly affecting your future.
best wishes
PS
I’m still anxiously awaiting the finish so I can include this in my best of sways index project, maybe it should be there anyway…
With all the scams and other BS online, I don’t think you can blame a the guy for thinking it’s crazy to ship this board to someone he doesn’t know. Like his post states, he didn’t realize what the event was, who would be there and who you are before he answered. It goes as a testiment to sways that people come together at meets and are kind to one another. It’s a testiment to his achievement that you would like the board displayed to a group of salivating onlookers. Not sure how you could keep someone from sneaking off with it to see how it rides though… 
If all parties can just write it off as a guy protecting his baby, which is warranted, we can all get back to enjoing the hell out of this thread.
I’ve been a member here for a very short time, but my first observation was how helpful and friendly everyone is here, much like the Yahoo boardbuilding group I’m an active member of… These hobby groups that share a mutual passion for the projects and the sharing of knowledge are rare indeed and should be held in the highest regard… I don’t know John Mellor or anyone else here for that matter, but he seems like an honorable person who offered a huge compliment to you when asking for a loan of your board.
Perhaps it’s the over 20,000 views of your project that has gone to your head???
Frankly a 10 lb. hollow surfboard of that length is no real accomplishment in my book,the word “hollow” implies lightweight, and using carbon “bits” for the sake of using carbon is costly and unnecessary… Sorry for the negative comments, but that’s what you were looking for wasn’t it ???
A.P.
yeah its pretty cool,
very intricate
and im a jeweller so i can appreciate the work
still, i dont make extra work for myself if i can help it
i would have tried chambering foam(maybe high density epp or eps)
and used thicker skins
say about 4 to 5 pounds and just as hollow
your opening post came across as kind of wanky
suggesting paul boards were too heavy and this and that and to be honest
i switched off the thread because of it
i would of taken johns pm as total compliment
and giggled to myself that it would even be considered
how in the hell could you imply that was rude.
i mean we are amature builders and to display your board to other builders is
really really cool
"no thanks " would have been a more appropriate reply
dont try and justify why you responded the way you did, as that is a copout.
just say “oops sorry for the misunderstanding mate.hope i didnt offend you”
Hey LP,
I’ve been following this with interest…
I would take it as a compliment that your board creation has created enough interest from others to be asked to have it on show ANYWHERE!!
Most of us are older type gentlemen who appreciate hard work and great results, we are not the type to trash other peoples stuff. We may criticise, dissect, pontificate and generally bullsh!t about how we’d do things better but we would protect someone elses hard work to the hilt…
I know you’ve put XXXX man hours into it and it’s become your baby, you’ve even put 110 pictures of the thing on a public forum, be honoured that you were even asked.
It’s a bit sad that you are unwilling to share. When I made the Auslocks board I knew that everyone who used the board would give it a critique, the way it rode, paddled, looked, the finish, how much it weighed etc, but it doesn’t really matter, I hope that everyone has fun with it.
All John was asking was to have a look…
As far as the board goes, if it doesn’t work out as planned, you could always stick an engine on it and fly it around…:-))
“As far as the board goes, if it doesn’t work out as planned, you could always stick an engine on it and fly it around…:-))”
you’ve really outdone yourself this time , Grant !
I rate that as one of your 10 best responses ever …
[but then , some of us ‘Wozzies’ ARE a bit …er …“loopy” , anyway…]
ben
and lpg ,
just keep working on the board , get it in the water and let us know how it surfs , I’ll be stoked to hear how it goes . I hope you can get some really god waves on it and surf it well …it’s been quite a journey already eh ?
Back to the subject. I layed the final coat of glass on the bottom and installed the fin boxes.
Right on. I’m digging the exposed high tech look. Reminiscent of some of Mr J’s best work.
Hey LP - I love this thread because of the originality. I’m glad you’re back on topic.
Possibly - hopefully - you’re having some second thoughts about diverting from the construction discussion. I think we all understand why you & John weren’t able to connect on that request. May I humbly suggest the [edit] button? I bet if you took out your post about the PM’s, everyone else would follow, and this wonderful thread could revert to being 100% on-topic.
I agree that your first session needs to be documented.
Best,
Ben
looking good!
Are those wood fin boxes?
spoons
Craftee,
I know making hollow rails was definitly not the easy way to get em done. However, I saw making them as an opertunity to try something different so I was like what the hell, why not. I am woried about developing a small crack or pinhole in the rail from an accidental impact with something. Since the rail does not have a solid core this is my biggest concern. Im going to always have a glass patch and some CA glue or 5 min epoxy handy in my car whenever I surf this board just in case. I waterproofed the whole interior of the board for extra insurance. Iv’e heard from other HWS threads that solid wood rails have the potential to add alot of weight plus I didn’t want to use foam in any part of the board because it defeats the concept of hollow. They do look pretty cool when you see the kevlar weave up close.
Spooner,
They are stock white futures fin boxes which have been dyed black. They are mounted in wood boxes which are built internally into the board.
As far as weight goes. It really added up with my skins. I realized that I made a poor choice in the type of veneer that I used. The carbon tape adds lots of weight really quick. It was a comprimise between strength and surface finish. The veneer I used has a paper backing. That was also a mistake. Oh well…
since it looks like your getting close to an actual water test.
I’m probably just plain stupid here but a quick and dirty recap or summary of all you nts and what your pre-rid expectations were in doing those particular build outs in the way you chose to do this project would be a big help in understanding how all the little and big things you put in this are supposed to contribute to what you want to get out of the end result.
Then as you ride it you can give us feed back as to what components worked as expected and which ones didn’t and how you might’ve changed the build out base on whta you found out during the ride tests. That would be a big benefit to me in understanding how all this fit’s togethor cause it seems pretty complicated but with a purpose behind each element.
It would be a good pretake off checklist to walk us through what’s doing what…