Cross cutting question...

Ok, I hear some folk’s swear by cross cutting - other’s frown on it…I personally think it’s a-ok, but I’m probably doing it wrong.

So far I just took slight angles passes on deck near nose to thin it out… then did same on the other side… but then I saw a Terry Martin vid and it looks like he starts at the tail, and cuts at about 30 deg angle wwhile standing on op side of blank cutting up board slightly, then pulls a ninety deg angle across the deck…repeat. . It creates step like pattern on stringer… does this sound right? Do I leave it on one setting? I’m thinking lowish depth cut. If anyone could walk me through this nagging question it would be helpful.

And is it safe to cross cut nose rocker, foil etc… ok, I blew out a chunk of stringer…but is there a safe/sane way to go about it? Tia for any help. And if anyone is near Monterey bay and could walk me through it -awsum! I’m willing ti share tools, and build some boards.

It is always risky to hit wood sideways with a spinning blade and high torque. Try planing down the stringer first with the hand tool of your choice.

It is easy to croos cut a nose or tail if you take the stringer down first.  Then you can cross cut foam to your hearts delight.  You have to ask yourself;  Why??  What is your reason for cross cutting?  Thinning the nose or tail???  Pushing back rocker further into the blank??  Creating “flip”??    Because of the method I use;  I never have to really worry about splintering stringers when I cross cut.  Lowel

Ty… I might try? But I’m fixated on learning -Terry Martin’s method. Correct me if im wrong, but it looks like he starts cutting in his tail kick by standing on op side of blank, and starts his cut at a angle - towards rail, then mows, then reverses planer so blades cut horizontally across stringer…and he repeats process to x point up the board…does that sound right? The plan is to set pp on a low setting and cut out sum tail flip… is there anything I’m missing? After watching vid, it looks like he just sets his depth of cut and just cross cuts it in , from tips forward. Sound about -right?

Guy’s thanks! Lowel - my game plan is to mow off 1/8" of foam behind where the upper twins are…so mow that off. I might even cross cut the deck foil in nose area… it’ll save me time w surform n.note: I got xtra thick blank, so if it starts getting crazy I can stop and finish w surform and block.

Spent much time with Terry in his various shaping rooms, and he did a lot of cross-cutting.  Use shallow cuts with backstrokes and you won’t splinter the stringer.   Terry’s basic process was:  (1) Cut outline, (2) Lengthwise skin both sides to rough middle thickness,  (3) Cross-cut bottom at nose and tail to rough thickness and to adjust rockers if needed, (4) Smooth out cross-cuts by shallow lengthwise passes both sides to finish thicknesses, (5) Cut single narrow rail band on bottom both sides, (6) Cut deck bands.  At this point the perimeter will have a 1/8" wide vertical band which is the untouched outline, (7) Clean up bumps/planer edges on flats with surform, blocks, or disk sander,  (8) Add any special bottom features with planer, curved blocks, surform, (9) Screen rails, (10) Touch up any areas as needed with appropriate tools.  This is a gross overview of how Terry shaped, and there are very many subtle techniques embedded in each step. 90% of everything was done with a planer, all other tools didn’t shape and were only used to smooth out the planer cuts.  Further, Terry was not a measuring guy per se, and would rely on the sound of the planer, feel of the rails, and repeated sighting down the length from both ends. His technique was the sum total of all that stuff and uniquely personalized.   Terry was somewhat embarrassed by that “40 minute” video when he talked with other shapers, and insisted that the intent was only to provide some insight about shaping to the general public, so don’t take it as anymore than that.  He was always open to changing his technique, and felt that each shaper must do what works for that person;  you’re better off discovering those things rather than mimicking anyone else.  One of the last things he said to me was … “even if we lived for 200 more years we’d never do a shape perfectly or even understand what a perfect shape was”.  

Nice post Pete. The backstroke is works great. I use it sometimes up in the nose on the deck and also when cutting in a stepdeck or “S” deck.  You see this in videos but can’t tell that the shaper is cutting on the back pull.  Sometimes you can cut on the forward stroke if you take shallow depth passes and only take 1" or so at a time. We used to call this “step planing” as the cuts resembled stairs.

    I love building surfboards. Even though I have done thousands in the last 50 years I am always changing techniques. I am no longer trying to make a living so I mess around in my shop. It’s all about the process. Once a board is finished I am over it.

   I really miss the times when I was young and would shape boards and surf the hell out of them.

When I was working on Yachts and fairing a great number of Hulls on boats Including fairing a hull to be used to create a mold for reproducing sail boat hull. One of the secrets of getting a clean curve was cross cutting.  The X pattern was the key to blending in the highs and lows. 
Surfboards like the hulls of boat are multiple compound curves blending into each other.

Thanks MUCH - PeteC! Also, thanks -Terry for leaving the vid behind! Anyway, this will DEFINITELY help relieve the frustration trying to answer my ‘what if’ I blow out my stringer, do it wrong etc…agreed about discovering on your own…GREAT TIPS ! T c and thank you!!!

Cleanliness - thanks for posting! I am FINE W CROSS CUTTING! So anything about the methods are MUCH APPRECIATED! I’ll for sure explore my planer and cross cutting techniques.

Since you ENJOY shaping - do it fir life! I told myself when I re-started shaping I wouldn’t stop, and a that’s where I’m at. Peace out.-Jim

Good point -artz! I agree, it ( cross cutting ) is pretty darn accurate to hand shape curves. Gentlemen - I thank everyone for contributing, and I hope and pray for a super build that could just blow your mind! Anyway, time to cut into my next one! I can’t wait to try this cross cutting!!!

Cross cutting?    I rarely do it.      VERY rarely.       Preferring instead to adjust nose and tail rockers by cutting shallow steps, with short lengthwise passes.   Just my preference.      I believe it is more precise (for me, anyway) than cross cutting.   Plus, I just don’t blow up any wood stringers.  

Bill - thanks MUCH for the info! I saw a technique on a vid similar to what you just described! It’s a newer vid on YouTube. Check it out!

Run a search, but type this in: Building A surfboard part two plane shaping. By Richard Harvey

Anyway, I subscribed to vid bcuz I like how he uses a stock planer and covered more fundamental principles then vids most that I’ve seen! And he does it in a way that’s understandable. It’s definitely enough info to get started shaping. I also liked how he uses surform on rails, and literally cut those rails down in minutes! But yes, he shows you how to cut in tail rocker in a three step process. I think it’s great for prob anyone!? I like his bottom rail method as it sounds traditional?

Anyway, I like the ‘cross cutting’ because it’s a way to keep the curve even as artz pointed out. It’s also a way to remove gobs of un-wanted foam! :smiley: and best of all – it’s fun!

Anyone have a close up of cross cutting techniques on a vid!?? This would REALLY be cool! Maybe a YouTube you found??

Look at the Ben Aipa video, that’s how I do it. However Ben cuts his outline way into the process because he wants a big surface at the nose and tail to support the planer when cross-cutting. With those narrow wingers and stingers he does it makes sense, but for wide fish and LB’s no in my opinion.   The trick is adjusting the depth on the fly so you aren’t making steps.  Whether you use Bill’s short lengthwise method or cross-cut, only a Skil will do a smooth transition in my opinion.  This is because up/down planers need to be pushed into the cut while a Skil has a variable opening at the cutters due to the sliding shoe and can very gradually go into a cut.  This is what you don’t see in all of those videos, how that depth lever is moving. 

I do like the skil 100 depth ajustment. You get a much better feel of how much you are cutting on the fly. My Clark Hatachi is just too smooth.  What can I say I need a crutch.

PeteC- thanks a MILLION! You know I was thinking that it needs adjustments pp up w cross cutting etc., but you’re right! It’s so subtle it’s almost undetectable. Thanks MUCH. This is going to help bigtime as I want a nice smooth slightly kicked up tail to create a little flat to work in a bend that has to be flow n the natural rocker break. On my deck, I think I need to remove about 1/2" + of thickness which I’m trying to pull back into my wp…it’s to almost flatten out the curve a bit to reduce swing weight.

Anyhow, I might have to try to work in a little fly adjustment if I can, but I am using my stock pp… I do know it cuts quite a lot on even a low setting… so if I start low I’m thinking it should zero? So I’m thinking set it @ lowest setting, and as I cross cut or whatever - I can turn the knob as I slowly work up my deck…might have to figure out a slightly higher setting so that I don’t create a step…if it’s slight, I could just surform and block it out. It should work, I think? Good news is, my blank is thick -so I got ample rm to experiment.

About a skil 100: I want one, but I got so many bills I have to just get a modded Hitachi pp. I’m saving money for one now. In the mean time I’m going to have to devise a way to somehow get sum sort of adjustment on my stock pp.

Have you not read “Newleaf’s” thread for hitachi on the fly adjustment modification d.i.y ???

thanks - Fins out…I read it, and it’s a super post. But I haven’t had time to locate the parts to do mods yet. But there’s a home depot, ace hardware, and that’s it. I hope I can find the parts.