tooltripper
funny how they come on herelike a shot
to push a new product
but they sure draging there feet on this one
darker than dark
The FCS guys that participate on sways haven’t seen this yet, I’m pretty sure.
I can’t speak for them either, but personally I’d bet money it’s just a typo in that info sheet.
MEK is a much more likely ‘‘dip’’.
hey mike
thats funny ron was online 2 days ago when i first replied to this thread
click on tooltripers link it was allto clear to me what they were saying
darker than darker
Mike,
I continue to enjoy your input.
Do you use FCS plugs? How do you prepare the new ones? If dipping them results in 60% better strength would you then dip them?
(Are they strong enough without the dip or do they need more help?)
Thanks in advance, ojshjs
dipping doenst do anything
you sand them
There still seem to be a little confusion here. As I said in my earlier post, I was also concerned about this. So I phoned FCS Australia and they confirmed MEKP is correct and it was not a typo.platty.
WOW!
They really stand by the recommendation.
Now my question is: Is there anybody that does it or knows of someone that does it. Is it easy to do and/or worth it? Don’t suppose that its ok to be dripping catalyst on board or workbench. If true, 60% improvement is nothing to sneeze at. Although it might not be worth playing MEKP roulette for.
Thanks for your second response Platty, my bad for not reading better. Aloha, ojshjs
I wonder if dipping in nitroglycerin would yield 75 percent???
Quote:
Do you use FCS plugs? How do you prepare the new ones? If dipping them results in 60% better strength would you then dip them?
99% of what I shape is Coil Construction vac-lammed, and we use a preglass install system, so with FCS
that’s the new Fusion.
WRT ‘‘normal’’ plug installs, the PU boards I shape are glassed at Larry Popes or sent to the Outer Banks
where Mike Clark does the FCS work at US Fiberglass. LP and Mike are very experienced and both yield a
top notch install, but I don’t know the details of either’s procedure. I can check when business resumes
tomorrow. When installed correctly, FCS is a great system. There are also several other great options; pick
the system that best fits your technology and fin needs.
FCS has some well-designed in-house test eqipment, and they test and destroy installs constantly. I’ve seen
some of their data. If they say the dip improved strength 60%, I’m sure they’ve got the #s to back it up.
PS: thanks for saying you enjoy my ramblings
hi mike not to be personnel but i could not give a shit about fcs
let them wheel there own barrow
the point that alarms me is they clearly give this advice freely
already on this thread there are guys wondering if it is alright to do it
with that little knowledge of the chemicals there using
they should clearly not use this practice
i have been shaping& glassing for a looooooooong time
& for a loooooooong time have been bullshited to about how safe it was to work whith all
these chemicals we are now in the 21st century what a backward step f c s have taken
is this the best solution that they could come up whith?
mike on your own admittance you do not do any installs
spare a thought for those that do
its there health at stake here
darker than dark
Hello-
I’ve been in Australia for meetings the past week and now on vacation this week still in Aus., so haven’t had access to the internet at all recently. Today is the first of this thread I’ve seen. At an internet cafe’ currently and don’t have much time, so will make it brief. When testing our new X-2 material, we found the bond to be equal to our P-2 plugs. Also when testing and experimenting with bonding, our PD team found that dipping the X-2 plugs in MEKP prior to install dramatically increases the bond strength. Anyone building surfboards should know that MEKP should be used with care, caution and protection (and the instructions label would have heaps of warnings on it). In the case that someone does not read the warning labels, we will look into changing our literature on the matter to warn of such dangers. When I return to work early in May, I’ll post some more of our test results (photos) of the bonding increase achieved with MEKP.
As suggested in this thread, sanding the plugs lightly before install will also help with the bonding, but keep in mind that it is not necessary and the bond is equal to the P-2 plugs we’ve had the past couple of years.
Waves were amazing on the Central Coast of NSW this past weekend. Scored some sick ones and another swell on the way!!
Thanks to all and good surfing!
Ron
The old PVC plugs need to have the mold release removed from the bonding surfaces, and wiping with acetone is OK. The new polycarb ones should be dipped in styrene because they are slotted-up and you can’t get into the slots by wiping or sanding. Just a quick dip, no soaking. All molded parts have mold release residue on them, and it’s normally silicone-based which will cause problems bonding. There are a few enviromentally friendly solvents which will remove silicone quickly, but these are normally used in medical manufacturing applications and are very expensive. Some people never clean them at all, and don’t have any problems. If you’re not comfortable with the solvents, don’t use them.
G’day Ron,
Glad to hear you’re enjoying good waves here in Oz…
I, like many other regulars here on Sways are somewhat astounded with the advice given
by the F.C.S brainstrust re:the suggested m.e.k.p treatment of plugs prior to install.
It’s not so much the safety risks associated with the handling of said chemical that
concerns me cause I believe that common sense and the correct personal protective
equipment makes it relatively easy.
What caught my attention is the claim that m.e.k.p may be used as a chemical bonding agent,
which,after 30 odd years of proffesional board building and general FRP experience,is news to me!
So last nite I consulted my own brainstrust,2 wise and occasionally,grumpy ol’ legends…one a high
end boatbuilder with 50 years hands on,the other a board glasser since the 60’s…Anyway one
dismissed the theory as internet tomfoolery…the other scoffed at me and told me stop wasting
his (retirement)time…!
So Ron,I eagerly await your posting of conlusive findings to support such claims as to a 60% increase
in chemical bonding using mekp…(and saving face with the 'ol legends…)
Sammy
ah i read the report and says 60% over the p2 plugs on my one i got sent
so if the plug is already 50 percent stronger then polycarb
its only 10% stronger by dipping in a solvent
Fair enough.
But, do you consider MEKP a solvent…?
"Fair enough.
But, do you consider MEKP a solvent…? "
Only if you get it on your skin or in your eyes. platty.
Hoping that you guys will back me up. It was there at one time right?
There is no longer any mention of MEKP on the FCS web site in regards to plugs.
Or was it just a fumed filled dream/nightmare?
Together we have clout and can really contribute and help the industry.
Mike Paler I salute you, many mahalos for this great site. I hope perhaps the “big” guys will send you a pay pal contribution.
Aloha to all, Tripper
But what am I going to do with the 4 gallons of methyl ethyl ketone peroxide when it gets here?
hey tooltripper so they have got rid of that bad bit of advice
well it was sure there at 1 point glad you brought it to our attention
21st century you know there has to be a better way?
darker than dark but can see the light
Quote:
But what am I going to do with the 4 gallons of methyl ethyl ketone peroxide when it gets here?
RUN!! and call the bomb disposal guys…
Quote:
But what am I going to do with the 4 gallons of methyl ethyl ketone peroxide when it gets here?
Dip everything you’ve ever made (or are going to make) out of poly in it, it will now have a better bond. Insert joking, sarcastic smiley thingy here…