Do Surfboard Manufacturers Rip Themselves Off?

General Discussion
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Hey guys,

Looks like were really onto something.

Firstly, to those of you who offered to not screw me on my next board, I really appreciate it! Finally I have a line on the Pros of the industry. You guys obviously don’t know how hidden away you are. It’s like a big fog bank. So many half assed amatures getting in both our way! One reason that word of mouth doesn’t work is that most surfers wouldn’t know a good from a bad board. Most surfers really aren’t atheletes, they’re just guys out on the weekend looking to unwind. (Otherwise there wouldn’t be so many damn longboarders sitting way outside getting all the set waves!) How are they going to pass the word on about who’s good?

Secondly, in my industry of residential construction, there’s this thing I call Cocktail Party Negotiating. The guy can afford your price, but he wants to brag to all his friends at the next cocktail party how he screwed me! I know this first hand how these rich bastards think! I’ve seen it in action. The secret lies in giving him something else to brag about. Let them talk about how he’s friends with the world famous shaper; how he got the board just for him; how well he surfs on it. On and on!

On his next board, kill him with your knowledge. Why the bottom contour is a certain way. Why these fins are perfect. Why this length is just right for this wave at this size. On and on. Strike his ego and make him feel special.

Understand that this won’t work on all customers. There is the oaf out there who is stoned half the time who wouldn’t appreciate it anyway. Blow that guy off!

One thing that everybody wants is speed. Nobody like waiting a month for their board. If you blow off the cheap bastard, you will be able to take better care of the real customer. Cater to the good customer, and you might loose two thirds of your sales, but you’ll make three time more per board! If you are only making $50 to $100 per poard, and it takes a month to get it done, Cut your sales in half, double your profit to $100 to $200 per board, and enjoy the free time. At that point expand the business because you might get a good reputation.

I remember in the 1980’s and before, when Al Merrick charged $150.00 more for a board than anyone else. This was before Tom Curren made him world wide famous. He could do it because his boards were better than everyone elses. This means that you really need to understand the physics of what’s happening under your feet. To those of you who think the spoon under the faucet trick is relevant, think about the direction of waterflow. You are riding a flow of water that is rising under you and moving perpendicular to you direction. To those of you who think a sand finish is better for speed, any turbulence causes drag. The idea of a board or fin storing and releasing energy is ridiculous! A fin doesn’t snapback causing some magical effect. The fin is pushing against water, not an immovable object. As soon as you release the pressure of a turn, it gradually returns to position. Regarding flex, A board doesn’t feel alive because it flexes! Flex changes rocker, that’s all! If the board flexes it will carve a different radius only when it is on a rail. It will let you land a floater easier by the nose bending upward to increase nose rocker. It may help with tail rocker (behind the fins only!) and your bottom turn Too much flex and you loose control because your movements don’t translate quickly enough to the working parts of the board (rails and fins). Some of you need to market flex not as something generic and magical, but in specific zones on the board and why the customer wants your design!

The key to your success is in making a better board than anyone else and selling that idea to the public. There are so many bad ideas being passed along from one to another that yield bad designs. If you want to get beyond the average, education is the key. Get to the library and read! Start with engineering designs of brigdges. What would happen if you changed stringer material in different areas of the board. What about drilling holes in the face of the stringer. What about parabolic stringers that stop at your front foot, and a carbon fiber skin from there. Wouldn’t snap, and would let you land those drops. Popular mechanics will teach you more about engineering than Surfer Magazine.

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G’day Lokbox,

Most backyarders in this country that turn out more than say, 100 boards a year, will be at or near the price of the the bigger names, so with lower overheads their profit margins will be much better than these brands. Just because someone has the smarts to be able to legitimately make surfboards from their backyard doesn’t mean they’re ruining the industry.

A lot of people who had factories in the past decades have gone back to the backyard.

I pay workers comp according to the number of employees and their income.

The quality that I see from the backyarders that I am surrounded by, who make decent numbers is on par or exceeds the recognised brand names.

The surfers in this part of the world are very clued in and will not tolerate dodgy equipment, (at present there are warehouses in the western suburbs of Sydney full of inferior, very cheap imported Boards just sitting there not being sold even for $300 ) and any manufacturer that doesn’t produce quality will not last.

Edit: Just as a bit of an edit, the backyarders who do sell their boards for just above cost soon put their prices up when they realise they’re doing a hell of a lot of work for just about nothing.

And if I cant compete with someone who has worked out how to make a quality product for much less then I guess I’m not smart enough to be in business.

Daren

My aplogies entity…my comments were directed for the most part at the american market. I visited OZ twice and found some of the same things happening there but it was the exception not the rule. It’s hard not to have your comments taken out of text on these forums, but I’m not gonna write a war and peace type post either. Bottom line is surfboards are too cheap. You can be on top of the line equipment (CI board and billabong wetsuit) for under a grand. Name another real sport where you can do that.

edit Just realized this is swaylocks and few people see CI boards as top of the line lol.

83

thanks for the boardbuilding lesson

i think ill just stick with makeem and breakem

not that compsands break

and ill undercut who ever i want (and do)

legiimate is the biggest wank wank

everyones entitled to make a living in what ever way they like as long as its legal

the backyarders are the backbone of the industry

they had/have all the innovations

its a backyard industry of people having happy lifestyles making boards for mates and surfing

its the kooks that tried to make it legitimate and get rich out of it

they are the ones that ruined surfing and crowded the breaks

all these asp clowns that dont give a shit cuz they get flown to remote locations with no crowds

84

i am starting to make boards so i dont pay 500-700 for a pop out.

i would gladly pay someone for a custom board if i was anywhere near good enough to know the difference between the two. and when i get to that level i will.

when i have old boards they will be sold for cheap. i am no master shaper, and my unknown rep should show that. so why charge people 400 for a used board that isnt by a great shaper. or reputable company.

85

$50? Why would you even bother? No doubt everyone would like to be paid what they’re worth (or think they’re worth), but $50?

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shaping is too easy

get a machine to whip it out in ten minutes for thirty bucks

exactly how you designed

the days of the guru shaper are gone

rockers are so similar you could go into a shop with a vernier guage and lazer level and you wouldnt notice the difference

blanks are so close tolerence you only have to do is skin the bottom and leave the rocker as is and the board will

work great

its all in the glassing and sanding these days

backyarders has no overheads get the blanks machine cut for a hundy bucks

glasses in epoxy (very little mess and zero fumes)

we have a a viable product

boards are way to expensive

retail margins are too high

just so they keep a few talentless morons in there 10$an hour clerk jobs

fck them

ill get the money for myself by undercutting the retailer

maybe the retailer will have to get a used car next year and only go to the mentawhais once a year

poor bugger

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its the kooks that tried to make it legitimate and get rich out of it

they are the ones that ruined surfing and crowded the breaks

all these asp clowns that dont give a shit cuz they get flown to remote locations with no crowds

Nothing wrong with treating it like a business, but I agree with the above statment. Nothing wrong with rich if it happens naturally as the result of exellence instead of hype. Rarely does though. More Chevy than Benz, but you don’t see many chevy cars around past 200,000 that drive like they are new with few if any rattles. There is a difference even a novice can notice between surfboards made right vs mass produced or cheaply made, but you have to keep the board longer than a year or two.

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no Need to apologise mate, you’re just telling it as you see it. Just thought I’d give a view from one of the many sides to this industry.

Daren

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$50? Why would you even bother? No doubt everyone would like to be paid what they’re worth (or think they’re worth), but $50?

Because I’m a super cool surfboard shaping dude !! Yeewwww!!!

And a smartarse.

But $50 is a roundabout figure after taking out wages and all the other shitty little things that creep in. Of course this will depend on what you charge for your own personal labour.

If you charge yourself out at $10/hr the profit will be much better :slight_smile:

Daren

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If all you make is $50.00 a board than you are part of the problem.

Shapers are the reason why boards are so cheap.

Making a board just to please your EGO?

$125.00 is the least you should make on a shortboard.

Most guy’s make $250 to $600 for a longboard glossed and polished.

If you only make $50.00 a board why make one? Just get a job at a hamburger joint.

Construction jobs pay nearly $50/hr, so why make your friend who frames houses a board

for $50 profit when you have at least 4 hours into it? Or an electrican that make $65/hr.

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If all you make is $50.00 a board than you are part of the problem.

Shapers are the reason why boards are so cheap.

Making a board just to please your EGO?

$125.00 is the least you should make on a shortboard.

Most guy’s make $250 to $600 for a longboard glossed and polished.

If you only make $50.00 a board why make one? Just get a job at a hamburger joint.

Construction jobs pay nearly $50/hr, so why make your friend who frames houses a board

for $50 profit when you have at least 4 hours into it? Or an electrican that make $65/hr.

The shapers who do all their own work and are good at it do ok. The guys who use someone else to do their glass work have to sell more boards to make a living. I know a few who have a great life and do their own work and are not dependent on anyone. They are never at a loss for orders. Usually…they have too much work to keep up with.

92

There becomes a point of diminishing returns.

After I had been ripped off by my factory manager to the point of literally no money to opperate, it became a no win situation of buying 3 blanks, shaping 3, art on 3, lam 3, fin 3, hotcoat 3, box or plug 3, sand 3, pinline 3, gloss 3, rub 3.

Hopefully collect the money on these 3 and hold off the hounds from hell.

Pay the bills for what ever was going to be shut off yesterday and buy 3 more blanks with what little was left over.

I went on for almost 2 years like that and realized, I was never going to be able to climb out of the bottomless pit I was in.

If you are trying to make a living and survive doing it all yourself, it is extremely difficult to keep the goal in sight.

I had to resort to dodging the Fla. dept of revenue as I couldn’t make up the sales tax that was also part of the money put in the pipe.

The day I moved out of my factory and walked away from 25,000.00 dollars in equity (I could never sell the building). The Fla. dept of revenue came and put plasters on all the doors and windows to not enter or remove any of the contents.

If you build it all yourself, you are either independently wealthy or skirting the rules to get by.

I fought the law and the law won

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skirting the rules to get by.

I fought the law and the law won

Reality lives!

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If all you make is $50.00 a board than you are part of the problem.

Shapers are the reason why boards are so cheap.

Making a board just to please your EGO?

$125.00 is the least you should make on a shortboard.

Most guy’s make $250 to $600 for a longboard glossed and polished.

If you only make $50.00 a board why make one? Just get a job at a hamburger joint.

Construction jobs pay nearly $50/hr, so why make your friend who frames houses a board

for $50 profit when you have at least 4 hours into it? Or an electrican that make $65/hr.

I think I’m not making myself clear on what I mean by profit. This is clear money after I already paid myself for the labour and after all material costs have been taken out. This is for aclear 6’3 shortboard.

As for part of the problem I’ve been in business for more than ten years and have more work than I can handle, so the only problem is no surf time.

I think the Australian humour doesn’t translate too well online.

Cheap is a relative term.

Johnny inlander who surfs once a week doesn’t think six hundred odd dollars is cheap.

95

Cost x2 + a carton of piss

or

$100 a foot.

would anybody like my number all custom orders finished in 4 weeks.

Asian import dings attract a 25% surcharge for translation.

96

I’m with you now. For a moment there I thought you were only making $50 gross…

97

<<< Maybe the “real” enemy is the cheapskate consumer. >>>>

That says it all.

and as a garage shaper and a custom board builder I actualy try and get the same or more for custom jobs
as the pro guys.
Make them work, make them pretty, make them shine, make them what they want, one of a kind.

Im making about $300 profit per Longboard (with color work and sometimes a veneer deck)

Im honest with my customers I just flat out tell them ,any cheeper and it aint worth my time.

98

Backyarders are one thing, but how about the new posers. The rich guy who made a fortune in _________ (fill in the blank) and now wants to import surfboards from offshore for “fun”. And so he’s selling boards from his warehouse for less than he’s got in them. Losing money for “fun”. Putting surfboard building professionals out of business for “fun.” Cool dude!!!

I have an idea , take all your money and go SURFING!!! In fact instead of putting surfers out of business for “fun” why not go surfing on Fanning Island or Asu Island or Bawa Island and while your there make sure every child has innoculations. Make sure every person there has clean water to drink. Make sure sure every kid can afford an education off island if he/she earns it. Take a bit of that fortune and give the island natives refrigeration, communications, sanatation. WTF am I suggesting??? Why do something silly like that when you could totally ruin the lives of decent hard working surfers who struggle to produce something unique and beautiful???

10,000 garage guys couldn’t do 1/100th the damage these A$$HOLES are doing!

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10,000 garage guys couldn’t do 1/100th the damage these A$$HOLES are doing!

Amen.

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