***** Downvoting, bullying, and childishness... forced to put on my moderator hat

There is no rule against downvoting a comment.

BUT, going on a downvoting “binge” against someone IS a personal attack in my opinion and that IS against the rules.

For instance, going through a thread (or multiple threads) and downvoting all of a single posters comments will not be tolerated.

Especially against a new poster who is on the edge of having enough points to make comments. Downvoting makes it so that they CANNOT comment.

Besides defeating the purpose of a site designed to encourage discussion, it is childish and petty.

If Swaylocks has you so worked up that you feel the need to be the “schoolyard bully” maybe it’s time to move on.

This is a forum where we discuss surfboards and the construction of surfboards with plenty of peripheral material thrown in for good measure.

If you don’t like that, nobody is forcing you to stay.

And, don’t fear, the Swaylocks and surfing world world will be fine if your “knowledge goes with you”.

Lastly, for everyone’s information, all of your downvotes are accesible for everyone to view.

Hey Chris, the system as it is set up now is subject to this type of “serial downvoting” abuse, so this doesn’t surprise me a bit. Downvoting, of course, is a part of the system, and every member has the right to downvote a comment when they feel inclined, and there is nothing wrong with that.  Unfortunately, until now there has been really no explanatory dialog regarding the post voting process anywhere on the site, at least to my knowledge.  In other words, if someone doesn’t like a certain poster, they may feel they can go hogwild downvoting their every comment, no matter how innocuous. 

I agree that this is a form of internet stalking / bullying, and an abuse of the system.  I just thought that after the introduction and subsequent modification of the miminum points / post voting process, there would be some dialog.  I attempted to get a conversation going when the subject came up on the moderator’s page, but to no avail.  So kudos to you for posting this thread in General Discussion, it’s good to get this out in the open, and I am completely with you on this point: “going through a thread (or multiple threads) and downvoting all of a single posters comments will not be tolerated.”

As you say, one can click on a member’s profile and see how many downvotes they have given, and in which topic.  But what you can’t do, unfortunately, is track each downvote to the specific post, specific downvoter.  It seems counterproductive to me when you get a downvote that will show on your points page, and there is no way of knowing who downvoted, or even which comment was downvoted, unless you can find the post with the minus vote showing, and then still don’t know who did it or why.

But if you receive a series of downvotes, and you find a member’s page showing they repeatedly downvoted in that very thread, then yes, you have no doubt found the culprit.  Can take a bit of detective work.  I know, because I went through this myself, but that issue has now been resolved, so I’m not gonna re-hash it now.

Another simple workaround for the members is, if you see a downvote or a series of downvotes (to someone else) that you feel is clearly unfair or unjustified, just click a quick upvote.  Easy peazy.  

For some reason, several people have accused me of devising / implementing the voting / points system, even 'tho as moderator I have no authority to do anything of the sort.  I have even received some hate mail from one of our resident nut cases on this topic.  For the record, I DID NOT COME UP WITH OR IMPLEMENT THE POINTS AND / OR VOTING SYSTEM ON SWAYLOCKS.  I just defended it from this standpoint: Its part of this great, free forum with a wealth of information readily available to any and all, with just a minimum of rules, so why bitch about it when we can just accept it and work with it, no harm no foul.

Actually, when looking at someone’s recent activity, you can click on the blue word “downvote” and it will take you to the very comment that they downvoted. There is no guesswork involved on that end at least.

Finding out who is doing the downvoting takes slightly more detective work and time but is still really easy.

Either way, offenders are put on notice with this thread:

Act like an adult and you will be dealt with like an adult. Act like a child and you will be dealt with like a child.

OK, got it. good info, on all counts.

Who believes the moderators are responsible for the downvote system?  This is obviously a function of the “new” forum format that was implemented a while back.

I understand that there are no rules about blocking new members from posting and retro-active voting (casting downvotes in threads that were created before the voting system was in place).  This is why I oppose(d) the downvoting option.  Upvotes are fine and identify solid member participation for other members to see.  Downvotes are a means to pettiness, membership blocking, and unjustified attacks.

Retro-active voting IMO and deliberately blocking new members from posting are flagrant abuses of the voting system.

EDIT: This new member downvote system has created a mechanism for limited entry membership only on this forum.  There has been much lower new member participation as a result.

At first, there was a new rule requiring IIRC 25 points to respond in a thread.  That made it tough for new guys, who had to start several threads before they could respond in one.  It led to awkward situations, where new posters had to start a new thread to respond, or else they could go back and edit the original post to respond, but in both cases most people lost the continuity of the conversation.

I think that has been remedied, now the minimum for responding is 10 points, and I think new posters automatically start off with 10 points, maybe some new guys could confirm this.  So they are automatically qualified to respond in any thread, as long as they don’t get downvoted minus points to put them below 10.  That’s where the rub is, and the temptation to abuse.

Even if a poster has enough points to weather any unjustified downvotes, its still an abuse to systematically downvote everything a poster says, regardless.  I’m not opposed to downvoting as a means of saying “I disagree”, that seems fair enough to me, but I am opposed to using it as a tool to stalk or harass someone.

With sequential downvoting, it takes little effort to block (ban) a new member.  This can be done with no justification.

In essence, “limited entry membership” only on this forum.

In a case like you’re describing, one would need to contact one of the moderators if they felt they were being unfairly attacked.  If you know of such a case, report it to a moderator.  What Chrisp has clearly stated, for all to see, is that the type of “sequential downvoting” you are describing isn’t going to be tolerated.

Good topic gentlemen. Personally, I like the up vote/down vote system – or else I wouldn’t have instituted it. The point of the points (no pun intended) is to reward/promote the solid contributors, and potentially excise/banish trolls. True, it can lead to abuse – but people will abuse forums one way or another regardless of rules or functionalities. The points system is here to stay – and I’m very open to tweaking/modifying it.

I think a few things, all my fault, have lead to some confusion around the points system. The largest is that I simply enabled it without formally introducing it. My bad. I could have done a better job there. Second, I’ve been too damn busy/lazy to put up a post explaining user points. I will. Soon. 

Going forward, I think a few new features will make the points work better.

  1. Put an offical explanation of points -- probably a sticky -- so people can know how the hell they work.
  2. Start people off at 10 points, the block them if they hit zero.
  3. Show some more statistics on a users profile. Specifically:
  • Posts Made
  • Upvotes Received
  • Downvotes Received
  • Upvotes given
  • Downvotes given

All feedback, suggestions welcome.

Mike

For me the operative language, for an up or down vote, is whether the comment/post was USEFUL.        That said, what is useful, will vary from person to person.     So it IS a subjective exercise.      Consider having a new member post at least three or four new topics, before allowing comments in other posts.     Just a thought.

Bill, it’s an interesting idea, and one I tried to roll with. The problem was with new posters who were trying to engage in conversation. They could post. But when they get a response, and wanted to respond back they were unable to. So the new user would then lobby around to get people to upvote him so he could respond. Not a great sitch.

Hey Mike, glad to have you weigh in on this.  Yes, a clear explanation of why the system was implemented, and how to use it properly would be appreciated.  Chris has already spelled out what constitutes abuse, and that is appreciated.  If downvoters had to give a reason, that could be helpful.  And I wish it wasn’t so doggone easy to accidently vote up or down when using my i-phone - just brush the screen wrong, and there you are!

There’s a few fools on my negative radar that get auto downs for life

So, since you mentioned it Tenderloin Tom, I will ask.

5 minutes looking at your history shows that you have some kind of hangup with at least 3 people:

SammyA

Keith Melville

Stayrelaxed

So, my question is, what do you get out of down voting innocuous comments from these members?

What’s in it for you? Does it make you feel good?

Because from my angle, that’s pretty chicken$hit.

I was taught that if I have a beef with someone, I let it be known then I get over it.

This downvoting their comments thing is petty and childish.

Also, knowing one of these members personally (he happens to be a real standup guy btw) I can say with confidence that he really does not care about the up or down votes on his comments.

If this downvote stalking and sequential downvote binging goes unchecked, this forum could easily degenerate into downvote feuds and battles between members.

Then what?  Downvote wars among groups, cliques, regions and countries? 

Chicken sh!t is an understatement.  

I have not been in high school for 45 years.  I do not want to go back…

Haha…I was wondering why I get constant down votes. Now I know

I didn’t know about this “down vote” thing…I doubt that I would ever have a use for it anyway…(lol)…if members can’t openly post their thoughts , something’s wrong.

Well 2 of them talked smack on a board I made and was proud. Do you blame me to not like them. I’m here to learn and not be ridiculed… The other I found to be an A hole… This place is going down hill and I don’t fell like sharing any pics or builds since…

Sorry 3 amigos but you left a sour taste in my mouth

I’m gonna start down voting Keith cuz he always catches more waves than me, dammit… Mike

And chrips, too, cuz his boards are better than mine and he surfs a lot better, too, dammit… Mike