Well there you go. (Slaps forehead)
I guess being that its the internet, we cannot assume all members are adults.
You go ahead Tom, you are sure showing them. Go ahead and get your petty revenge on someone you’ve never met because they hurt your feelings. And, for sure, don’t share your builds because gasp someone might have an actual opinion about something you made.
Did you ever think that you might be part of the reason why “this place is going downhill”?
Are there other folks who don’t post their stuff for fear of getting negative comments? Because that’s not what this place is about. Post up your stuff, take it on the chin and build it better next time.
At the risk of not following WWKD? (What Would Kokua do?, which here would probably be sit it out), I’ll put in my 2c.
I think the up/down thing is a bad idea. If my intuition is correct, it was only begun to deal with a unique forum member situation that has ended. Now it’s just seems like a lazy way to give either ambiguous superficial “approval” or petty, mean little digs, and the whole thing seems juvenile and teenage.
The anonymity of the internet can really bring out the worst in people. You really have to learn a new form of social etiquette. I’d like to see JUST an upvote option only (which might be easy?), and more “if you can’t say anything nice than don’t say anything at all” consideration (and a rainbow unicorn for a pet). But surfing has a tradition of hazing, and a strong sense of “cool”, plus how DO you give criticism in a nice way? Saying “grow a thicker skin” is easy for you (whoever) to say… and at the same time essential advice on the friggin internet.
I’ve cast a few downvotes here but now that the subject comes up I’ve decided that I don’t think the anonymous downvote adds anything productive to a discussion. If we get a troll it won’t be the downvote counts that attract the moderator’s intervention, it will be actual complaints.
I never even noticed you could up or down vote a comment, but since you mentioned “bullying”… How about the bullying, vitriole, and hatred that some spew on this forum when someone starts a thread about a standup surfboard? Why doesn’t the moderator step up?
Points, badges, kudos, etc. are a pretty common thing in community discussion forums. It simply gives a way to recognize good contributors. I still believe if executed properly, points can be a valuable way for an online community to moderate & police itself. And really, that’s the big picture vision here. Community based moderation is the only way for a free and open forum to truly scale to a large size.
Again, just because I (admittedly) didn’t execute well, that doesn’t mean the concept is wrong. So, given that I’m not going to get rid of points, but perfectly willing to adjust the formulas, here’s what I’m thinking to fix the apparent problem here.
Rename them to "Reputation Points"
Do a full reset on everyone's points. Everyone gets 10 reputation points, including new users.
A person can only get a reputation point when someone up votes their question or comment. Simply posting a question or comment doesn't get you a point.
Only people with a certain number of points can downvote. I'm thinking 25 or perhaps even 50 points required to be able to cast a down vote.
If your reputation points get to zero, you can only post a new topic, but not issue comments.
How does this framework sound? Any other ideas/suggestions?
YES, there are “folks who don’t post their stuff for fear of getting negative comments” and sadly that IS what this forum is often about. “Negative comments” as in constructive criticism is fine and welcome, but there’s a core of angry haters on this forum that often post the nastiest stuff that isn’t remotely constructive. I don’t know if it’s from sniffing too much resin over the years but comments like “Get a sawzall and cut the board into little pieces” on two separate ocassions come to mind after two different people POLITELY asked how to deal with a problem they were having while glassing. And that wasn’t even a nasty comment, but how about the hideous thread from a few months ago where the guy is talking about how much he “hates” ALL standup surfers? Never mind that sup surfing a short board is the most difficult thing you will ever do in your life, but then all the other close-minded silver back apes start piling on with their hatred and on it went for pages. (I didn’t get past the second page because I felt embarrassed to be in the same species as those meatheads.) Swear to gawd, change “sup” to “black” and the thread felt like a racist rant out of the south in the 50’s. Garbage like that adds nothing of value and only serves to cause division.
(# 1) ‘‘Contributor Points’’ perhaps? Existing points, divided by 100 as a way to acknowledge contributions of members of long standing, plus the 10 points assigned to new participants. Your thoughts, Mr. Paler?
(#3) Good idea!
(#5) Comment on a thread they start, but not other threads, until points come up. Any way to do that? Any merit?
Re #1. I was thinking about that, but because I had points linked to # of posts, we can have people who posted alot of crap end up with alot of points. I will display # of Posts, so there will be some reference to the degree of contribution. Within a year, I suspect the cream will rise to the top and great contributors will become apparent.
re #5 – I like that idea – will need to see if that can be done. Seems possible.
My bet is that most of the down votes are from members with a high point total, so by requiring a high point total before being able to down vote would do nothing to solve the problem.
Phebus, not sure about that because points are currently tied to posts – meaning that when you make a post, you get a point. I plan to do away with that so you only get points if someone actually up votes your post.
I’m a moderator here, so I don’t know if this will be considered heresy, but I’m not really a believer in the points system, period. I used to be more neutral to the subject, but over time I’ve come to develop a dislike for it. Its a reality I can accept as part of the experience of being here, and I can live with it to the end of being a member of what I consider a great site and a great resource.
But as far as points leading to self-moderation, I don’t see that happening, as it is now the problems surrounding the points system have made more work for the moderators, this thread being just one example. I could go on at length regarding all the pm’s I deal with involving questions, problems, allegations, accusations, and grievances with the points system, its abuse, its limitations, etc.
I frankly feel that you don’t have to spend much time on any forum to know who the solid, helpful contributors are, who the grouchy old farts are, who the self-promoting obfuscating windbags are, who the sincere newbies are, etc. etc., assuming such types exist on said forum, lol. As is evidenced in reading between the lines of the comments in this thread, it can be a minefield on internet forums sometimes, and points could never give you all the information you need to navigate it anyway, haha.
What kills forums is when they get taken over by bullying (or just highly opinionated) individuals or cliques and groups with a sense of entitlement, with a feeling that its “their” forum and they can dictate what gets discussed, who gets heard, what behavior is acceptable and what isn’t, etc. I’ve been on several once good forums that were run into the ground by this very thing. However the points are set up, the system should be set up with the understanding that its human nature for this to happen, and there should be no allowance for the points system to be used in this capacity. To my thinking, longtime members with a lot of points are not less likely to abuse the system than new members, they might even be more likely.
I can see reputation points being used to gain some credibility if that is the idea, but I think negative points being used to limit or “punish” someone is a slippery slope, because of the tendency to abuse inherent in internet social media. If points are here to stay, I say at least do away with down votes, and make up votes tied to a specific positive, i.e. helpful, funny, supportive, original, informative, interesting, creative, etc. If there is some special privilege tied to high point count, OK, but please don’t let it be downvoting!
Very eloquent and heartfelt comments Huck. I’m going to sleep on this. Frankly, it’s far easier for me to simply disable the functionality. Seems like another case of the road to hell being paved with good intentions…
Hey…Hey…HEY, Don’t pick on Keith!!! Keith always leads with his head…no I mean it, he literally leads with his head, ask him?! Keith asked the doctor if he could still surf…they told him one more blow to the head might be the end of his career…so yeah, hes getting all the waves he can.
SO I’m expecting a down vote on this one…go ahead…I dare you.
