A friend and I want to make some epoxy blanks. It is way to difficult to get the rockers and foils we want from the guys that are currently doing them in our area. My question is does anyone out there know what the official name is of the eps foam block we would need to get and where to order it from? Also has anyone had any experience making a hotwire for cut outs? We have some decent ideas on how to go about it, but we would greatly appreciate any help anyone can provide. We have been making poly boards for about 6 years now, and want to try something different. Thanks in advance to anyone that can contribute some info, and much thanks to swaylock for the excellent forum.
Stay away from the extruded foam. Heat and expantion can be killers.There is a lot to learn about the epoxy arena. Ask more questions and be informed. I have seen a lot of pain and suffering to gain the knowlege.
Mike, This was the first thing I pulled from the archives under “hot wire” – there may be others so you may want to check them out. Also, contact Peter Rijk personally in the Netherlands – you can get his address from the board archive from one of the many records he’s posted. Good luck S http://www.swaylocks.com/discussion/archive/index.cgi?read=1448
Hey thanks for the info and the great forum. I will continue on my search.
You’ll have to call around. You can get EPS billets (3d rectangles) formed in lots of shapes. I think 2 lb / cu ft EPS is pretty good. When you glass it, use at least 2 and 3 layers of 6 oz E cloth. 3 and 4 layers work much better. Keep the liquid epoxy OFF your skin. Also, wash your hands in clean denatured alcohol, NOT in the tool cleaning solvent. It is epoxy with a skin vehicle. The first few times epoxy resin gets on you, nothing will happen. You’ll say “Noodle’s an alarmist”. One of those times, you’ll swell up with “tomatoe face”. You won’t believe the allergic reaction. Thereafter you will be sensitized. The slightest bit of epoxy contact will make you break out. You have been warned.>>> A friend and I want to make some epoxy blanks. It is way to difficult to > get the rockers and foils we want from the guys that are currently doing > them in our area. My question is does anyone out there know what the > official name is of the eps foam block we would need to get and where to > order it from? Also has anyone had any experience making a hotwire for cut > outs? We have some decent ideas on how to go about it, but we would > greatly appreciate any help anyone can provide.>>> We have been making poly boards for about 6 years now, and want to try > something different. Thanks in advance to anyone that can contribute some > info, and much thanks to swaylock for the excellent forum.
Thanks for the heads up noodle. I guess it will be easier to find the eps now that I kind of know what to ask for. Have you had any success with epoxy? I think to start with I am going to just get a blank already done and see what it is like laminating it, before I go all out. I have read that once you laminate an epoxy you can then hot coat it with silmar, just like a poly. I would think that you would have to be sure that the foam is all sealed (fill the gaps in you laps around nose and tail). I have seen what silmar will do to eps foam when it kicks, not pretty. I have ridden a few epoxy boards and like the float (not sure about the flex though), but they were smaller than what I would consider for myself (6’1" and 6’2" thrusters). Just want to try a few that are more like what I am use to. Thanks again.
Thanks for the heads up noodle. I guess it will be easier to find the eps > now that I kind of know what to ask for. Have you had any success with > epoxy? Oh yeah! I’ve made 4 epoxy sticks with progressive quality. Personally I wouldn’t use less than 3 and 4 layers of 6oz glass. The idea is to combine weak, spongy foam with stiff springy glass. When you do it like this, delams don’t happen unless you trap moisture under the glass.>>> I think to start with I am going to just get a blank already done and see > what it is like laminating it, before I go all out. I have read that once > you laminate an epoxy you can then hot coat it with silmar, just like a > poly. Yeah, you can coat an epoxy lam job with Silmar. I use Suncure. Raw epoxy breaks down in UV sunlight. Buy UV inhibited clear epoxy laminating resin. It’s expensive, but required. Silmar type resin is very UV resistant. Adding a surfboard polyester sanding/gloss coat adds a UV sealant to the epoxy. Just be sure to thoroughly sand the epoxy glass. Epoxy sticks well to almost anything, but all resins, including epoxy, have trouble sticking to hardened epoxy. Shaping isn’t difficult if you make templates first, and keep an eye out for symmetry. I can post accurate rocker, outline, and rail dimensions if you tell me what you want. Somewhere I even have templating instructions to go with them. Lightweight exterior spackling compound: fill your foam gouges with it in 1/4" layers. Thoroughly dry between layers. Mix spackling with purified water. After you shape the foam, coat it with the spackling mix. Thoroughly dry it and lightly sand it. repeat if needed. This step seals the EPS from soaking in resin during lamination. EPS capillary action can create pressure which can delaminate the glass later.>>> I would think that you would have to be sure that the foam is all > sealed (fill the gaps in you laps around nose and tail). I have seen what > silmar will do to eps foam when it kicks, not pretty.>>> I have ridden a few epoxy boards and like the float (not sure about the > flex though), but they were smaller than what I would consider for myself > (6’1" and 6’2" thrusters). Just want to try a few that are more > like what I am use to. Thanks again. A properly made epoxy/EPS board can be muck stronger than a standard poly/poly board. However, epoxy sticks don’t have the flex of standard poly/poly, for bouncing off a lip. You’ll pick up the rhythm. -Noodle
hey Noodle, can you give me an idea of the cost difference between a styro/epoxy board (glassed the way you like layers-wise), and a conventionally built clark/polyester one? also, is an epoxy glassing environment just as potentially flammable as a polyester/MEKP one? thanks
Thanks for the info, noodle. I had heard that you can spackle your gouges, but I did not know you should do the whole board before lam. I don’t understand how by coating the board with spackle you would not promote delam. Will the epoxy resin bond well enough with the spacle coated blank to prevent premature delam? Also I have heard that when putting fcs in an epoxy you want to make your H pattern shallow so as to not have an area which will get too hot when the epoxy resin kicks. Do you do this, or is it overkill? Thanks Again.
hey Noodle, can you give me an idea of the cost difference between a > styro/epoxy board (glassed the way you like layers-wise), and a > conventionally built clark/polyester one? also, is an epoxy glassing > environment just as potentially flammable as a polyester/MEKP one? thanks It breaks down like this for a board 8’ to 8’10" long. If you ca pick up your polyester blank, subtract $100 shipping. If you would be hotwire cutting your own EPS blank, subtract $25 for blank labor. As I understand it MEKP is the most flammable item used in surfboard construction. MEKP is the only reason for shops to need site VOC certificates. Epoxy/EPS Materials EPS Blank $80.00, Glass 7 yds @ $2.60 ea , $54.60, Epoxy Resin 36 oz @ $0.50 /oz $18.00, Boxes & Plug $15.00, Suncure Resin 20 oz @ $0.20 /oz $4.00, TOTAL $171.60 Poly/Poly Materials Poly Blank $100.00, Shipping $100.00, Glass 8 yds @ $2.60 ea $20.80, Suncure Resin 20 oz @ $0.20 /oz $4.00, Boxes & Plug $15.00, TOTAL $239.80
it looks like the price difference makers are the epoxy resin, and the amount of cloth, since you’re laminating 3top/2bottom instead of 2/1, approx 5-6 more yds. fortunately i can drive up the coast 70 miles and get blanks at a 15% markup, instead of forking over 100 bucks for shipping one. thanks again for the info!
Thanks for the info, noodle. I had heard that you can spackle your gouges, > but I did not know you should do the whole board before lam. I don’t > understand how by coating the board with spackle you would not promote > delam. Will the epoxy resin bond well enough with the spacle coated blank > to prevent premature delam? You would be correct that epoxy would bond better with the EPS foam, but epoxy bonds well enough to the spackle to stick. This system is certainly preferable to the tiny capillary air compressors you create without spackle. Try marking an untreated EPS surface with an ordinary ballpoint pen. A few hours later tear the EPS open and see how far the ink has penetrated into the foam. It should surprise you. (By the way, don’t mark your blank with ink).>>> Also I have heard that when putting fcs in an epoxy you want to make your > H pattern shallow so as to not have an area which will get too hot when > the epoxy resin kicks. Do you do this, or is it overkill?>>> Thanks Again. I’ve never installed fcs plugs, but the heat cure issue should be the same with the fin boxes which I have installed. Foam is a good insullator. The more resin you pool, the more heat you make. Yes, pooled fast-kick epoxy will melt foam. I’ve done it. You should use slow-kick epoxy if you can find the clear, UV inhibited variety. Otherwise use the good fast-kick epoxy for laminating, but buy some cheap, slow-kick epoxy for boxes and plugs. I mix my box and plug epoxy with diatomaceous earth (DE) from a pool supply store. DE is microscopic glass shards, and its cheap. -Noodle
it looks like the price difference makers are the epoxy resin, and the > amount of cloth, since you’re laminating 3top/2bottom instead of 2/1, > approx 5-6 more yds. fortunately i can drive up the coast 70 miles and get > blanks at a 15% markup, instead of forking over 100 bucks for shipping > one. thanks again for the info! ramon, You caught the typo. EPS construction would use 21 yds of glass (not 7). But the shown subtotal and total are correct for 21 yds. I use 3 and 4 layers of glass. How does the new cuban comet ride?
Noodle, it pains me greatly to report that the board hasn’t been in the water since i finished it about 4 weeks ago. south florida is flatter than a pancake in the summer, and the caribbean storm season has been more whimper than bang so far. i don’t have any trips planned until late spring/early summer. hopefully late fall and winter will provide us with plenty of cold front ground swell from dead north. that’s when it really fires here. the ‘comet’ will have it’s day i’m sure, and i’ll let you know what happens. anything happening in TX wave-wise lately?
The Pacific fed a low over Brownsville. The low pumped us Gulf south swell for a week ending Sunday. I caught some shoulder high glass toobs on Saturday… I’m still screaming.>>> Noodle, it pains me greatly to report that the board hasn’t been in the > water since i finished it about 4 weeks ago. south florida is flatter than > a pancake in the summer, and the caribbean storm season has been more > whimper than bang so far. i don’t have any trips planned until late > spring/early summer. hopefully late fall and winter will provide us with > plenty of cold front ground swell from dead north. that’s when it really > fires here. the ‘comet’ will have it’s day i’m sure, and i’ll let you know > what happens. anything happening in TX wave-wise lately?
Noodle: You weren’t by chance sitting in the lineup at Port Isabel on Saturday 9/01? (we made an all day trip out of it). No matter where you were it was firing along this coast. The ride home was a lot like sitting in a stupor after a huge Thanksgiving Dinner, completely satisfied. Tom>>> The Pacific fed a low over Brownsville. The low pumped us Gulf south swell > for a week ending Sunday. I caught some shoulder high glass toobs on > Saturday… I’m still screaming.
I also caught SPI at that time (Wed.-Sunday). Good swell and glassed up late afternoons. Still smiling.
Noodle:>>> You weren’t by chance sitting in the lineup at Port Isabel on Saturday > 9/01? (we made an all day trip out of it). No matter where you were it was > firing along this coast. The ride home was a lot like sitting in a stupor > after a huge Thanksgiving Dinner, completely satisfied.>>> Tom No wonder it was crowded Saturday. Seems everyone on this board was there. Lots of smiley faces.
Thanks Noodle I think I am ready to start my journey. I just moved, and have not gotten my shaping bay the way I want it yet. When I get it together, I’m all over it. Thanks for the info.
I was at Surfside. Great rights! I’d been sick, so chose the jetty, away from the rip.