This has some interesting ramifications for Swaylokkers…hope ya all got some serious insurance or could be bye bye house/car and the lot!!
http://www.surfersvillage.com/news.asp?Id_news=54922
And people wonder what is wrong with America. Next thing were going to sue the coast guard for not
Patroling beaches when sharks are around. Or hey let’s sue the lifeguards for not informing me that the sun can cause skin cancer. And because they didn’t remind me to use sunscreen time to lawyer up mr lifeguard.
ya,
you would think that such a free and easy sport would be left alone in the reguards as to law suits.
not so............
i got sued in 04.
i won.
but at what cost.
got sued ,because some bumbling fool,bought a used board i built and got hurt.
great...........
i got sued because the law said they could.
so...........
i build for myself.
herb
A2tail,yep all true true…BUT…it won’t change the current situation re this case (or any others in the near future)
wow to think that you could make a board, sell it to someone who may or may not have any idea what they are doing, they get hurt (in another country and two years ago) and pass responsibility right back to poor ol boardmaker (although in this case it ain’t no poor ol boardmaker, but CI who are , i think, owned by Burton and of course FCS now owned by bankers and non surfers who have NFI) so that is the status quo and it is ugly.
Maybe the secret is to be so small ya not worth suing
Rocky
Hey Rocklobster!
Unfortunately if their defense is based on their response, they’ve got big problems.
My expertise is in a heavily regulated industry, where there exist literally thousands of regulations and oversight…and even being 100% in compliance doesn’t protect you from these kinds of lawsuits. Their lawyer should have shut him up quickly with a check so that this story never saw the light of day. Even if they have all their customers sign liability releases they are not protected from this bullshit!
For every industry there are literally thousands of lawyers sitting around trying to figure out how to take what you have. That’s not a slam on lawyers it simply the truth. Now those same assholes are reading this story and searching archival medical records to file suits. If you’ve ever had to sit through this crap in court and hear how they craft their balony…oh and trust me common sense and simple truth doesn’t matter. I’ve had judges tell me to shut up in a court of law where all I was doing was telling the truth. They don’t care about the truth, they care about “rules” and their little legal universe. Then add complete insult to injury and have to write some f—ing jerk thief a check…it’ll shake you to your core.
Herb and Woody,
heavy stories and goes to show this is a huge issue for all concerned with Sways.
Herb , what happenned to you and was your win a published judgement that we can learn from?
Woody, was your experience in court to do with a surf related incident?
Rocky
No…I make surfboards for a hobby and that’s all.
I really can’t disclose, but I’m an executive manager in what is still considered a “small business” even though we have approx 450 employees. Makes us a target for sure. We answer 6-10 lawsuits or threats of litigation per month, every month. We have two firms on retainer at all times. Costs us well into six figures a year just for representation. I have a great passion for our business but sometimes the shear absurdity of people and their lawyers makes me want to chuck it all! Unfortunately we rarely counter even though we usually win or settle (arrrrrgggghhhhh) because of the bad press. Bad enough that people can basically slander you on the internet…being on the nightly news is the kiss of death…oh and 450 good paying jobs! Wanna know why they make shit in China? Mexico? India? etc. etc. Not just about wages my friends, not even close…unions…lawyers…politicians…that’s what they want you to think…for anyone who has suffered through a liability lawsuit…you know for sure 100% of what I have said is true. On top of that the IRS, (3 federal and 2 state audits in last 5 years), OSHA (2 audits in 3 years), NLRB National Labor Relations Board (2 audits resulting from 2 unsubstantiated complaints/investigations 3 years) and the investigator was so bold he told me emphatically that the current administration had given them special guidance to “target” our industry! Oh and last month the family of a previous employee (we fired him 4 years ago) filed suit to collect his workman’s comp. It was denied 3 years ago after a lenghty state investigation. Oh and why is the “family” filing instead of him??? He’s dead! He died from chronic alcohol and drug abuse! You might be thinking what the hell kind of business is this?? Can’t tell you…wish I could cause you would be very surprised!
All of the above…killing the dream…cause they don’t have the talent, the passion, or the guts to try to live the dream and they hate those who do!
Sorry for the tangent! I feel slightly better now!
Any way we can get this Tom Gregg’s email and tell him what a complete fuckwit he is?
woody, sounds horrific but also sounds like you are in some kinda regulated industry where if standards are met ya safe and if not ya open to suit.
problem with our surf industry is that it is not regulated and if ya wanna surfboard ya gotta buy it from some source (or go to sways and learn how to make one…and go crazy in the process) and that source sells ya a board without even a garantee, no instructions and no safety tips…but does that really protect either party??
Pointy noses is an example…we all got 'em and we all know they are dangerous and at the same time useless in regards performance. So selling a board with a pointy nose could leave you exposed.
How sharp should a fin be to work in steering aboard?? Was to the fin in this case really tooo sharp or of a shape or feature that was more dangerous that needed…sh7t who knows…but sounds like some court is going to tell us and set some precedent that may change the landscape
Rocky
p-co,
…but i think 'ol Tom Gregg may then have ya for defamation…sounds like he knows a thing or two (or his lawyers do) that we plebs do not…ie his rights (rightly or wrongly as we may see it)
This thing ain’t going away without $$$ trading hands. if settled by FCS to shut it up, we may never know the outcome and it will be super primed to happen again very soon.
Maybe trial by jury and public outcome serves us better…at least we know!
Wonder what happens if the board was made in china ??
Rocky
[quote="$1"]
woody, sounds horrific but also sounds like you are in some kinda regulated industry where if standards are met ya safe and if not ya open to suit.
[/quote]
You need to go back and re-read.
As soon as the money gets big enough, or there is an impression that the money is big enough, the vultures will appear. The legal system is self-perpetuating, and the deep-pockets syndrome can allow those with minimal or marginal culpability to bear the brunt of the monetary penalties if their financial resources are far greater than those who are actually at fault.
Not a lawsuit, but I once managed a furniture store, and fired a delivery worker for destroying a brand new delivery truck and a parked car, because, in his words, "no reason, just wasn't paying attention". Labor board called and told me that was not considered a valid reason for firing, and I was penalized heavily in worker's comp fees.
I don't know any of the details of this case, I didn't read the story. But before everyone gets too mad at the guy who got nailed by the fins, they should know that when the medical bills get big enough, the insurance companies will sue everyone in sight in an attempt to recoup some of the funds they're liable for. The guy who was injured might not have been the one to make that call.
A friend of mine nearly died in an accident involving a volkswagen van, the insurance company sued volkswagen international, it was a huge trauma for my friend, they had like 5 lawyers working full time to discredit him, private investigators following him everywhere he went, it was insane. It was not his idea to sue anyone, but the medical costs were astronomical, and the insurance wanted VW to share the burden. He lost both legs, they didn't even think he would live.
huck,
am I reading ya that the suit is only there because it is against companies who could afford to pay?
Maybe so, but if no standards are set in the industry or by some gatekeeper for an industry, it seems the consumer will not be held to be at fault no matter how stupid their actions may be…
Don’t have a flying f$&k what the answer is…but plenty of questions start poppin up.
Rocky
hhmm…shoulda sued Wardy back in 65’ when that damn 9’8 made me pearl and banged me in the face and broke my nose, Doug Schroedel in 95’ when that little rocket he made me got me sucked over onto the inside ‘knife’ section that I broke a rib on, and Ward Coffey in 2005 for that gash because his damn board refused to make an unmakeable section…
so what’s the statue of limitations on self-inflicted wounds suffered while having fun?
I mean, dammit, someone here must be responsible for my actions other then myself!!!
I got a rpomt from a dude who wants to stay silent who picked p on my bit about pointy noses and says that was subject of law suit in socal some years back re Nose Guard.
Some shop and board maker went to the wall for not selling a kid a nose guard or at least making him aware they were available in the shop and the boardmaker made a pointy nose that did the kids eye some serious damage…sounds like there are some precents out there we should know about.
Rocky
[quote="$1"]
huck,
am I reading ya that the suit is only there because it is against companies who could afford to pay?
[/quote]
Not exactly. A lawsuit can involve several parties, I've seen this in the contracting business before. Say the court says Joe Smith is 99% responsible for causing some debilitating accident, but has no money. Big Retail sold him the offending merchandise, so they are held 1% responsible. The deep pockets law allows Big Retail to bear 100% of the settlement burden, since they have the resources and Joe Smith doesn't. At least thats how it was, I doubt things have improved any.
Icc…hopefully you were drunk at all those times so ya can sue the beer companies…they made me drink it, your Honor.
pretty crazy, but does not solve what will happen …maybe nobody gives a f%&k …until ya get dragged into it.
Who knows more about the law and where this leaves us all?..not that I am wishing a lawyer upon us all…they can’t all be bad
Rocky
This isn't going anywhere because it's in civilc court and the logic would be the same as getting married; do so at your own risk. Secondly; it is in Santa Barbara civic court; sympathetic to local business. It's not like this is a civil rights lawsuit in 9th District SF.
Huck, obviously in your business experience you’ve seen many of the same things as I have. Everything you said is dead on!
I wrote 3 more paragraphs and decided to just leave it…bottom line though is this…our system in this country is strangling all of us! More importantly making us completely uncompetitive in a global market. What a shame!
I really really don’t want to turn this into a politics discussion, but when you see the Republicans calling for tort reform, don’t just dismiss because its them. An enormous part of the bill you pay every day for goods goes to cover product liability measures. And an even more enormous part of your medical bill goes for the same and for so called defensive medicine (tests and med’s you don’t need but would sue over if something went wrong).
Woody, it is as you say a shame.
I’m out.
From someone who worked in healthcare management for 3 decades - over utilization of services is a much bigger issue in for profit health care systems, and it’s not driven by doctors covering their ass, it’s by administrative pushing for expensive testing to increase profits for shareholders. Much less of a problem in non-profit healthcare delivery systems.
Regarding the current political war over healthcare - turn it into a non-profit field only with group membership pools available to everyone, end of problem, costs would immediately be reduced. And non-profits can make profits, they are just obligated by law to return the profits back into the system - payroll, new facilities, services for the poor - instead of paying the shareholders.
Many more lawsuits and larger awards against the for profit systems as well, due to the ‘deep pocket’ liability, as for profit hospital and clinics are owned by mega-corps.
Non-profits don’t have nearly the same amount of lawsuits, and the awards tend to be far smaller.