Hi,
Has anybody checked out, or even better, used 4WFS (4 Way Fin System)?
Hey Oneula,
I agree with you on the probox issue with compsands. I’m finishing up with my first compsand and installing the proboxes I had used balsa blocks on the sides to strengthen and prevent eps melting but not underneath and guess what, when I popped in the proboxes and resin the eps melted and created 3 giant holes through my board! AARGH so frustrating. 'Moral of the story is to fully protect the eps when installing finboxes. Although my bad experience with proboxes is frustrating, I think I’m going to use them again as they fit with fcs and can be adjustable. I’m just going with glass on fins on my first balsando and see how that goes.
Cheers,
Rio
Quote:
Howzit onaula,I had the same problem with the box floating up out of the hole the first time I did a ProBox but it was because 2 of the little tabs were broken of so the box wasn’t secure in the jigs. But Mitch and Robin had that rpoblem fixed by having stronger tabs put on the boxes and have not had this problem since. Heard a rumor that they sold the rights to the system but I’m going to ask Mitch myself if it’s true. I have heard of some problems arising withthe system but not in my expierence so far. ProBox is a good system for those who like to change the fin angle but I’m a FCS guy first but also like using ProBox.Aloha,Kokua
Ive had problems with the resin lifting the jigs so now I put a weight on to keep it down.
Ive heard from Steve Mock that Probox was sold to some fin company in California so im guessing that its likely.
You only need to look at resin content used to install to know that EPS will melt the foam when substantial amounts of resin are used for install. On EPS installs for FCS or Probox try filling the holes partially, then come back with a second batch the next day to avoid overheating. At least this is what the production guys are doing. They are not stoked on 2 day fin system installs…but at least they’re not ruining boards. Both Poly and Epoxy get hot when accumulated in small areas. With most of the angle built into the fins, you avoid having to adjust the box way over to either side and can use a much tighter rout, therefore substantially less resin. If your fins have no angle built in, you then rely mostly on adjusting the box over to get your angle. This requires a larger rout to allow this adjustment, which then gets filled with resin.
Yeah… I had resin eat through all the way to the deck of a board… was a nightmare. I did what lokbox said before unintentionally becuase I didnt mix enough resin and it worked out alright, but its also a pain in the ass.
we use FCS for most of our boards because thats what most people ask for .Everyone has about a dozen different sets of FCS fins and they don’t what to change.
I have used speedfins, used fintech when they were around and have used fin solutions before and have just ordered another dozen sets of fin solutions to try and give people the choice ( if they are willing )of the other fins that are around and some custom fins as well as all the FCS range.
Even when we put in Finsolutions boxes we still attach them to the deck in the same place as FCS.
Personally I still prefer the honeycomb stick on fins on my boards.
Has anyone noticed the rash of FCS plugs pulling out lately from not being attached to the deck? I reckon I could send my kids to Uni (college) just from resetting FCS plugs that haven’t been set properly, and these are in some big brand named boards.
Laziness or aesthetics by not having the deck stickers?
You could also spend quite a bit of money on the insallation kits and not have anyone interested in that system.
also a lot of people asking for stick on fins again as this is what they are seeing on the bottom of the pros boards, and thats what the kids what!
oneula— bummer about the boxes ripping out… i do the high density beefup and it ads almost no weight. perhaps a bit of stiffness…
i would be very worried about the proboxes in 1lb becasue even if they don’t pop out they are going to wiggle loose over time and leak… i bet if you installed them before glassing, like futuers, you wouldn’t have as many problems…i also like glassons the best…
btw the board looks sweet, looks like you figured out the wooden rails…
oh yah. i say FCS over Futures…
i absolutly am sick of chasing the bubbles on the futures boxes… so much that i just bought the fcs insall kit and spent the last few days building jigs to make wood fcs fins…
funny when i look around at boards in shops more often then not the futures have the bubbles, of course the bubbles don’t do anything but drive me crazy…
Thanks john
lazy I guess
but you’re right
an oval of dcell, corecel or balsa monted in the foam like you do under the skin makes all the difference in mounting anything in 1lb.
Glass-ons are just alot simpler and look nicer
and somehow even though it’s probably my imagination,
I think they ride better…
If your building stuff just for yourself glass-ons seem a good option and Fiberglass Hawaii carries a nice selection of dcell, wood, glass, fabric inlay and hex core fins…
If I ever decide to make another EPS board I’ll do inserts like you for sure…
BTW thats not wood rails on that board but 1.5 inches of corecell surrounding the entire 1lb foam.
way easier to put on the board than balsa though not as solid and heavy.
I even did two I’m finishing up now with 2" of blue XPS on the rail covered by a 1/16" and 1/8" balsa skin for protection.
I like lokbox, fcs and probox is a nobrainer to install
but you won’t find too many lokbox fins for sale here over the counter at T&C or HIC or Fiberglass Hawaii or any of the other stores I usually by fins from… That’s the only negative to Lokbox I see aside from the cost of their install jig although I know it’s multipurpose.
But Griffin’s using them in his supertwin and quad models for his big handmade G10 fins… I hope to have one of those before winter to test out as well…
Great feedback here guys. Thanks! Oneula we’re working on getting more stuff over there now. It’s not easy. Usually politics stops us in our tracks in most of these places. Since T&C is like 9000 percent behind Glenn Pang, they use mostly futures because that’s what he likes. Last year I was at T&C and showed Glenn my Pavel speedialer. He was very intrigued by it, so much so that he went inside and came back out with pen, paper and tape measure, and starting taking down specs after asking me if it was OK. I said no prob. Stoked to show you what’s popular in california. They now offer a quad fish that is eerily similar to a speedialer. Of course it comes with futures. Thanks BRAH. I won’t be showing you anymore boards.
We are also now offering a cheaper installation Jig. This Jig does only foam installs and works much like the futures Jig that just rests on the board with non-skid on the bottom. No vacuum, and no airline needed. You use a smaller laminate trimmer type router to rout the foam. Rainbow sells this set up for $260, and they give licensed board builders a $170 credit towards fins and boxes. The kit ends up costing $90. There is no way I could manufacture an accurate Jig that lasts for a long time, for less than that. Anyone interested can contact Rainbow at 831-728-2998 Thanks
Yup the politics out here with that kind of stuff is really bad just ask Griff…
You’d think we’d have more options for our local board makers to test out but it’s exactly the opposite here unless the guy is willing to go and venture out on his on. The key to making fin systems work is if there’s ready access to a variety of fins especially good/new stuff(carbon/aircor/hexcore/glass/ etc etc) and not the cheap molded stuff you find everywhere here. But we happen to live an a very closed environment here(in many more ways than one) as a few key players have locked up and decided what you can get or can or can’t do from an industry standpoint. That is unless you want to special order from the mainland from rainbow or someplace like that which kind of doesn’t help when the guy building or glassing your board is working at the factory and being told by the factory what you should be using and what you shouldn’t. Even if it’s all lies.
Greg Loehr just posted another thread on social prejudice but the prejudice in this industry and the BS that goes around just in preventing any change from the status quo verges on the incredible. I think you’ll agree that in general at least here in Hawaii the surfboard industry is a very convoluted, incestuous, cannibalistic, and self promoting environment you could ever be in.
I still think fins handmade for the board in question is the way to go especially if the builder and the fin maker are one and the same whether that’s in a box or not it probably doesn’t matter as long as the fin and board are made to go togethor cause neither can do the job by itself.
Wish we had more choices out here
I guess you have to either make your own or have a builder that is willing to go out on his own.