So I was talking to my fiberglass supplier and making sure he had 6 oz. cloth in stock and he asked if I had ever tried fiberglass mat. I haven’t but it’s $4.50 cheaper than the 6 oz. cloth which is attractive. Has anybody tried fiberglass mat, how was it, why do you or why don’t you use it? He said it would be stronger but perhaps slightly more rough, although with a filler coat that should be fixed right?
Wayull - there’s two problems with fiberglass mat.
The first is, it’s not that strong , so that you have to go heavier than you would with cloth for the same strength.
The second thing is it’s thicker, so it takes a lot more weight of resin to wet it out and if you do you still get a kinda brittle lamination. You can’t squeegee it at all, you wind up with this really sticky hairball and some kinda strange spots in your lamination. The best way to put it on is to roll on a layer of resin, put on your mat, roll on more resin and then more resin, then use one of the boat laminators ridged aluminum rollers to get the air bubbles out. The way you get it sorta smooth is to basicly submerge it in resin. Lorts and lots of resin.
It’s okay for some boats, where weight and thickness really are not much of an issue, but for surfboards, I’d stick with the cloth. Hey, what you spend on cloth, you’ll save on resin anyhow…
hope that’s of use
doc…
I tried to use it once years ago to fix a delam area on a deck of a board. It’s too heavy, sucks resin like a sponge.
My advice: Don’t.
PS If you want cheaper cloth, buy in bulk.
Is this what we in the uk refer to as CSM (CHOPPED STRAND MATTING)? If it is the best use for it is reinforcing castings like bath tubs and porch canopies, you need a gel coat on a mould to get anything like a finish on it. The strands are random oriented and held together with an emulsion which I’m pretty sure turns even the clearest of resins to shit. AVOID! Over here the proper cloth is pretty cheap.
Peace!
Thanks all. It appears my man has let me down. Cloth it is.
it does have an application in surfing… pop-outs. When moulded foam cores are ready, they tack chopped mat to it and place the whole gazunga in a metal mould which gets a slobbing of resin, pressure and heat, et voila, le pop out le ready to fair out and spray paint…
Images:
http://www.boardworkshi.com/productinfo.html
Matt sucks if you’re trying to keep the weight down, soaks resin like a sponge. a good way to squeegie it is to put a layer of cloth over the matt, squeegie on the cloth, works great, but not on surfboards!
Their not even using it for boats anymore. At least not real modern boats, high performance stuff. I was at one boat plant in FL and they were building high performance flats boats. The manager walked over to two hulls sitting side by side, an old one built with mat and a new one built with sandwich, epoxy and modern fabrics. The old one weighed over 400 lbs. The new one weighed less than 100. It was amazing. The new one went as fast as the old one with 1/2 the horsepower.
regular non hp hulls in europe are usually continuous roving shot with a gun into a mould with polyester, sometimes epoxy/vynilester.
Many here are the same. Lots of the chopoper gun boats are still polyester. But those boats will soon be part of the past with oil at $125 a barrel. Future boats will require better fuel economy and the high end manufacturing techniques, though more expensive, will be worth the money to save the dino juice.
Oh yeah, I agree on all counts - you get a stronger, lighter, stiffer boat that’s more economical to run, draws less water, lots of good things.
And, for those who haven’t run into a chopper gun: http://swaylocks.com/swaylopedia/index.cgi?Chopper_gun -figuring that this may come up again…
doc…
CHOPPER GUN BAD…
ADVANCED FIBERS GOOOD…
CHOPPER GUN BAAAD!!!
ADVANCED COMPOSITES GOOOD…
Corrrect me if I’m wrong and drunnk as well. but haven’t surfboardsbeen laid up the same way. so realy why ask if you can do a search. has anyone ever been riped off with a chopped strand mat board ? that would be a newbie. and I’m pretty bloody drunk.
Here’s maybe a better way of thinking about it.
You start with the core aka the blank.
Choose the density that works for you. Keep in mind the lighter the foam in the blank the more reinforcement you need for a strong board.
Two schools of thought are evident here: ultralite blank yields ultralight weak board or lotsa glass or exotic glass for strength.
Or, stronger heavier core requires less glass for strong board.
Usually you will find the blank companies don’t charge more for light or heavier densities of their blanks. So it comes down to which method of finishing it do you want?
10 oz. cloth will cost more than 6 oz. will cost more than 4 oz. and so on.
Fine, you like 4 oz…but if you want it strong you will need MORE 4 oz. so don’t forget to compute that in.
If your budget is that tight that you are looking for a deal, maybe go find a good used board.
Sometimes you have to spend a little to get a lot.
Thanks. I’m a student so I have an excuse for being a tightwad! But, it was just that if I could get something of equal quality for less why not? But it’s quite evident that mat is not as good, so cloth it will be.
Usually the layman oversaturates mat and it comes unfrazzled and scatters all over the place.
The application with mat can be judiciously used if applied between layers of cloth to increase the bond between cloth layers. The danger of added weight from being resin rich is likely and what feels strong to the novice is actually rigid or brittle upon impact.
I’ve considered using very fine mat (more like surfacing veil) between cloth layers on surfboards, and have done different approaches for customers who destroyed decks of boards. There are beter materials to use but I explore possible options that may prove to be effect and economical.
If you don’t ask, you don’t get…so I applaud you inquiry.
Stay in school and expand your options.
I thought this meant Dale Solomonson converted to fiberglass mats
my glass supplier has multiaxial with veil stitched, i got some to test. predominantly for snowboards but if it wraps rails cleanly I may go for it. at 300 gr/m2 it should’t be heavier than double-6
Yuck!
I fooled around with some veil material, the heavier stuff peeled up similar to cloth laminate, the lighter stuff, used for fiber in gel coat, had an itch factor so bad I can’t even look at it anymore.