I have read many posts here and on other forums regarding the best fin for noseriding and there particular design characterstics. Insightful, I am looking for similar input. Where I seek direction is fin design for high-performance single fin longboards in the high 8’ - low 9’ range. A fin that is quick in the water, promotes carving, more aggressive turning, and releases quicker off the lip. I have tried various designs already including: standard cutaways which I feel lack drive unless your running side bites; generic all-around designs; Squirrel Cutaway; Harbour HP fin (a great fin for holding on the nose and in steep sections but I have trouble releasing off the lip with the extra rake in its design. (even after several incremental movements in the box) I hold Rich and his product in high regard and therefore attribute my dismay with the Harbour HP’s turning ability to my deficiencies…maybe it is just not for my style/condtitions).
What is out there? What should I be looking for? What about the True Ames California Classic, Wayne Rich Classic, Josh Farberow Flex, various Greenough designs, etc? Flex vs non flex?
Since you already determined a length limit, you should not bother to try any cutway base fins. All of them need to be ridden longer than a widebased fin, to have the same holding power and drive. Yes, sidebites help, but your board doesn’t have them.
At 155lbs., and usually riding faster moving waves, I’ve always like the Rainbow Naish B210, and swept, wide tiped, very wide based, kinda thick fin. Lots of power, anything I put into it, it gives back. But it needs power to work well, or needs to be moved well forwards. Usually 10.5" tall, it doesn’t qualify for you.
I think your fin size constraints are just too small.
I hope I’m allowed to disagree. I’ll try and do it agreeably.
Cutaway fins will hold just as well as full based fins if they are templated properly for the application they are intended for.
When it comes to longboarding tip area, cord length and rake play major parts in the dynamics of fin performance.
One thing worth considering is the flex releases power. It lets the board rails create drive. If that’s what you want go for it. Rigid fins place right and foiled properly are more powerful than flexible fins.
I don’t want to get into a discussion on theory. Sufice it to say. Commerically available cutaways won’t get the job done. so in that respect LeeDD it right.
I have a 9.25" cutaway fin on my 9’10" Hap Jacobs that does everything I could want a longboard single to do. I’ll post a photo if you have any interest.
You could do a lot worse than a Farberow or a Nat Young from True Ames.
Consider how critical the conditions will be that you’ll be surfing and choose accordingly.
Glide, I have a stack of fins that I try out on my new boards, until one tells me, “This is the right fin for this board.”
Two fins keep outperforming the others: Guy Takayama Orca model (for drive and performance, and the Manta model (to loosen up the tail). I don’t know a lot of theory behind fin design, but Guy thinks out his designs very carefully and they work.
A friend of mine bought a new Brewer board. When I asked him how it surfed he said he was disappointed, because the performance was kind of flat: didn’t turn or do anything very well. It just so happened that someone had a Manta in his truck & we suggested he try it out. He couldn’t believe the difference. He said it was like having a completely new board. Now, that’s his favorite board of all time. Amazing what fins can do.
Anyway, in your case I would recommend the 9" Orca. By the way, all his fins have flex tips, which seem to liven things up. Doug
I am a big fan of custom made fins. I have never found a store bought or mass produced fin that worked as well as some customs that Rich has made for me. He recently made(which I will post a pic of) an 8.25" fin for my Hap Jacobs 7’8" Hybrid that is channeled and the board responds unbelievably with incredible drive. He also made me a set of tri fins that work great as well. By telling him what I wanted from the fin and the dimensions of my board he came up with a templates that work. He also made me a set for my Yater 9’ rounded pin which blow away the fins that came with the Yater. Those fins were sluggish and had no life to them. I think the guys that really have an understanding of hydrodynamics and fin theory have an edge over those shapers who may be great shapers but don’t have the knowledge of what fins make the board shine. I think the fins are what an engine is to a car…they make it go or not. Of course the surfer has a lot to do with it as well. Some sufers could surf the door of a 1972 Pinto and make it look good.
Glide, I have a stack of fins that I try out on my new boards, until one tells me, "This is the right fin for this board."
Two fins keep outperforming the others: Guy Takayama Orca model (for drive and performance, and the Manta model (to loosen up the tail). I don’t know a lot of theory behind fin design, but Guy thinks out his designs very carefully and they work.
Both of those fins use flexibility of the fin tail to advantage. If you look at the image carefully, you can see the substantial chord length increase at the tip. Tip chord lengths are over 4 inches, whereas the fins have 3 to 3.5 inch chord lengths further up. This generates drive NOT through a normal foil action, but because the tip changes its AOA, stores energy, and then releases it.
You can make the whole fin do that, it makes a BIG difference.
Normal wings would not increase their chord length near the tip because of the penalty in induced drag. Minimizing induced drag comes from an elliptical lift distribution - more lift closer to the base, and decreasing lift closer to the tip. All elliptical wings have such a distribution.
If you load the fin in a rotating system, you can make the whole fin turn like that, more easily control the force/AOA relationship, and avoid the induced drag penalty from having almost the longest chord length at the tip by using an elliptical, raked, foil. [wink]
Note: I like the Takayama designs, they are well thought out IMHO.
interesting to note that Boeing has developed an alternative to the vertical winglet, it just happens to be shaped roughly like the tip of one of Mr. T’s fins.
I’ll see if I can find the article & photo, but it’s a skewed-diamond-shaped, in-the-same-plane-as-the-wing, anti-tip-vortex winglet…
oh yeah, they spent mucho dinero on development & computer modeling. sometimes shapers stumble onto similar outcomes as the big-bucks guys.
“Unlike traditional winglets typically fitted at abrupt angles to the wing, this new advanced “blended” design gently curves out and up from the wing tip, reducing aerodynamic drag and boosting performance.”
Their website description is that of a winglet that redirects forces from other planes. The plane of curvature for a winglet would be the plane of cant, whereas the plane of curvature for GTs tips will be in toe-in.
that’s not the one I was talking about. This is from a different source:
… the raked wing tip. The RWT works in similar fashion to a conventional winglet yet remains parallel to the upper surface of the wing. The result is a lightweight composite wing extension that is swept at a higher angle than the actual wing. According to Boeing this concept, whilst still providing the same effect as their first design philosophy in terms of efficiency of payload/range performance, is 750kg lighter and reduces wing span from 180ft to 170ft.
I have read many posts here and on other forums regarding the best fin for noseriding and there particular design characterstics. Insightful, I am looking for similar input. Where I seek direction is fin design for high-performance single fin longboards in the high 8’ - low 9’ range. A fin that is quick in the water, promotes carving, more aggressive turning, and releases quicker off the lip. I have tried various designs already including: standard cutaways which I feel lack drive unless your running side bites; generic all-around designs; Squirrel Cutaway; Harbour HP fin (a great fin for holding on the nose and in steep sections but I have trouble releasing off the lip with the extra rake in its design. (even after several incremental movements in the box) I hold Rich and his product in high regard and therefore attribute my dismay with the Harbour HP’s turning ability to my deficiencies…maybe it is just not for my style/condtitions).
What is out there? What should I be looking for? What about the True Ames California Classic, Wayne Rich Classic, Josh Farberow Flex, various Greenough designs, etc? Flex vs non flex?
that's not the one I was talking about. This is from a different source:
… the raked wing tip. The RWT works in similar fashion to a conventional winglet yet remains parallel to the upper surface of the wing. The result is a lightweight composite wing extension that is swept at a higher angle than the actual wing. According to Boeing this concept, whilst still providing the same effect as their first design philosophy in terms of efficiency of payload/range performance, is 750kg lighter and reduces wing span from 180ft to 170ft.
But the increased rake section is only 6 feet long, and doesn’t include a longer chord length. That makes sense as a mechanism to reduce “induced drag”.
What doesn’t make sense in that capacity is INCREASING the chord length in the tip rake section. On fins like the GT fins above, the chord length goes from close to 3 inches on the neck to close to 4 inches near the tip. This makes sense if the tip is used for its flexing capacity - a mechanism to allow AOA changes in turns, and allow the tip to return some of this energy in drive.
Here is a picture of a Boeing wing using the raked wing tips.
sorry, yes, we wandered off into theory-land. I don’t think it’s possible to answer what’s the “best” fin, because a) it’s far too subjective and b) it’s far too dependent on other variables such as board rocker, tail shape, wave power, rider skills, rider weight, etc etc etc. Any given fin (in my opinion) is going to have someone who thinks it’s the best… and those opinions will change over time, to boot.
any new design that developes AND repeatedly delivers its specified qualities should be put out there for use(if thats the creators desire). i certainly wish there were more readly available to try for our summer conditions here in fla;at least something which could make a great board that does well in normal waves also respond decently in lesser summer conditions.
I know I know…I’m not natural