Thats amazing, the art of shaping !
Your dream, a glassers nightmare.
Otherwise that thing looks absolutely unreal!!! I would love to give that thing a spin.
I’ve ridden a few finless boards and the more channel depth the better although at some point the channels are almost the size of fins. Still yet, way less drag. Bring it to Hawaii. I’ll take it out.
WOW! 
I like how all of the redirected water converges at the tail, kind of like exhaust extractors in a car engine…
I can help to think…fins work by redirecting water flow, and fin area makes a big difference in how much hold the fins have. I wonder if the total surface area of the channels (and things) that redirect the water flow add up in a similar way, i.e. with a “channel area” that equates to amount of hold? Then again the angle of attack will engage and disengage some of them…where a fin’s depth would come in handy…
Facinating, I love it, and I’m confused too…I like it…
looks lethal.....the only problem is I feel compelled to make something radical now.....hahaha....... good work, would like to see footage of it being ridden if you ever get any.....
Thanks for the stoke guys. I’ll try to get it glassed ASAP but low funds are holding it back. I think I will have to
glass it cause NO ONE will want to deal this at a low price. I ain’t scared though. Just need 4 respirators, a
week and a half, 50 sheets of sandpaper, and drugs that make you go fast.
It is confusing when you think about what is going on, where the water will or will not go, how it will actually
ride. But see, I never really thought that while shaping- I just shaped it. A boring sunday off work and a
twelve o’ PBR. How will it ride? Pretty sketch I think, it has no fins! But realistically, I don’t care how it goes.
It was so cool to let it evolve how it did, and now we have pictures to look at, trip out on, and wonder.
Overall, I just think it looks cool. Wallhanger? Maybe eventually. But I will ride it, and let you know how
it go. I’ll even let you ride it.
Hoping to hear from Motif or any guys previously on this thread (that is only two years old) about other
craft specifically made finless. Also, I think the tail may need something-swallow perhaps? More flex at the
end of the channels for, I don’t know? I could make a W tail. (isn’t that a swallow? M tail? B-2 Bomber wing-tail?)
Anything to make laminating even HARDER. Currently accepting ideas as this is still not completely finished.
Again thanks for watching, and ANY feedback is appreciated. The more stoke I get the faster it will be in the
water. Double meaning- get it?
beautiful work that’s also a glassing nightmare, i can totally relate. dimensions pls morghead?
it is screaming bat tail.....I did a wild bat tail, on thread called 'trying stuff' ....
6’0-14-19-15-2 1/2. Pretty flat deck. Kept a lot of foam in it. Wanted 2 layers on btm. since its stringerless,
just not sure if possible to mash 2 layers into all them channels! How can I stiffen it up?
Crazy bat tail would be cool!
morghead, that things looks pretty cool. it will work; well at least it will do something in the water similar to sliding across the face of a wave. anymore than that and ya never know, also depends on how much you want to get out of it. killer shaping by the way…
as far as the tail, i would go with a asymmetrical. take a look at derek’s boards. your toeside versus heelside are very different to control and i find that you can aid this process with asymmetric tails and concave.
i have two new boards (9’ & 5’8’') that both feature this, i will post some pictures of them in the next couple rainy days.
oh, and if you want to bring it up to santa cruz i would be happy to glass it.
cheers!
I wouldnt do 2 layers, dont want to make it a slug coz its too heavy....carbon is an option but I reckon it makes em too stiff, especially if you do the norm and do both rails, I been doin a few with a thin strip down the centre, about an inch wide to reduce flex but still have a little bit...but possible just a 6 bottom and some big laps....check out the thread called 'Less Fins " , if you havent already.....
So Derek is reg. foot. His frontside rail seems to have more curve at the tail and much less area at the
tail than the backside rail. If this is correct, it is opposite of what Ekstrom and others have done. This
is where I get confused. I’m sure If I put real thought into it I could figure it out. I guess no fins
really changes everything as far as asym goes? Any thoughts? I just saw Ryan Burch, should
have asked him.
Motif-I’m actually flying up north tomorrow, driving down to S.C. for a day or two. I don’t really
want to airline a stringerless blank, and I doubt you want to glass and sand this in a day and
a half! But thanks for the thought!
Y’know…
Here we have someone thinking that how lame people LOOK surfing however & whatever means…well… But isn’t it more so about just being’ out there 'n having a good time? Are YOU out there needing to show others just how great a surfer you are? Why? Whether we surf on. A board or body surf, or even just out in the surf wading while being blown away by the beauty that mother nature blesses us together a part of, isn’t it really about whatever it takes to feel great about being there, a part of it? I am stoked just to see someone out InThe water enjoying themselves, regardless of how they choose to do so, whether that be on a fish, Tri-fin, single fin, quad, longboard, short board, finless board, bodyboard, or. No board at all.
I enjoy the hell outta’ this treasure of a forum.but to read some of the most assinine comments that are clearly aimed at belittling another. WTF? Just enjoy the experience, either of your own doing or that of another.
No disrespect to anyone personally intended here.
I actually am looking at one of Tom Wegener’s Seaglass Project Tuna boards and the soft top. albatross for my wife, just to have something different & fun to get out there & get wet, have fun.
Namaste
rich
I must confess, began a finless journey a couple years ago and never experienced such joy since the first bottom turn into a big wall as a beginner of surfing years and years ago. It took me nearly 3 months to get some self confidence and loved every sliding moment. Highly recommend a finless jaunt for thrill, stoke, wow and health for spiritual, physical and mental condition.
Is anyone making finless boards with bodyboard rails like 50/50, 60/40 with sharp edges for achieving hold without all the channels/concaves?
[quote="$1"]
Is anyone making finless boards with bodyboard rails like 50/50, 60/40 with sharp edges for achieving hold without all the channels/concaves?
[/quote]
hi Cuttlefish, I first saw a Lance Collins "Wave Tools" board with bodyboard rails in Bondi Junction in about 1980 and for a few years now Ive been giving it a go myself. Ive been riding commercial bbs and trying to work out theory of why and how they work or dont work .
And could the angled rails work for surfboards ?
A standard BB rai is 60/40 with the apex 60% UP from the bottom edge and its almost universal that the 60/40 shape is continuous along from nose to tail.
They also do a 70/30 but its even less effective than the 60/40.
The basic bb rail iis called a "vacuum rail" but it doesnt vacuum anything ,its just a marketing catchphrase... with all that we know about the curve of aircraft wings and fins and sb rails, how the hell do 2 flats with a 110 deg angle create suction with the wave ??
What Ive found is that the higher the apex the easier the bodyboard turns into a wave, but with bbs having no deck roll, they need a high apex rail (60/40) to help initiate a turn.
A few years ago I built a shortboard with 60/40 rails and its too easy to turn, it felt as tho theres wasnt enough rail volume to provide enough resistance, so a 60/40 rail on a shortboard was a fail. The basic fuller round rail on surfboards is part of the complex equation that works, the angled rail provided no resistance or 'hold' of a standard sb rail.
I reshaped the rails in the back half of the board into a standard round rail, and it rode a lot better, the front was still useless but the back half gave the right feeedback.
For about 5 years now Ive been working on finding an angled rail design thats similar to a rounded rail shape and this is where Im at after about 30 boards.....
Where under the apex is a vertical that adds volume to the bottom of the rail.
[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/june20110023.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/SAM_0478.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/oct2011108.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/pro3017a.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/deckrails013a.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/BD002a.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/Contours4March2010088.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/Nose008-A.jpg[/IMG]
And above the apex, its a straight line or a curve that tapers out to increase the volume at the top of the rail.
[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/mould3.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/SURFFOILS003.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/july292011017.jpg[/IMG]
This shape of angled rail design gives greater resistance at the start of a turn because of the fuller base of the rail but it allows for a more even control because of the angled top line that evenly increases the volume as the rail sinks into the wave face.
Ive certainly tried a lot of different ideas to avoid the standard rounded rail design and finding an angled design that works for surfboards would make shaping rails a lot easier too.
Rounding off the apex doesnt do much to the performance but adding volume to the lower part of the rail instantly makes it ride more predictably for both prone and shortboard surfboards.
[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/roundedrail.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/manyrailshapes.jpg[/IMG]
In answer to your question, angled bodyboard rails could be used on a finless board but they provide even less hold than rounded rails.
Ive found the sharp bottom edge of a rail edge gives greater feel because its a continuous edge that you can control to vary the resistance against the flow, but its not 'hold' like a fin gives hold.
The best Ive found is to use a 20/80 in the front foot or so to keep the volume low in the front rails for planing and then morph that into either one of the profiles below for the mid or thru to the tail.
[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/2012/BBSFrails.jpg[/IMG]
Im doing 2 new angled rail boards for the thermoforming thread and I'll post the results over there.
Thanks Brett,
Ever informative as always.
I’m now thinking about what you’ve said.
Heres a few pics of the angled rails.
Tail.
[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/2012/SAM_2129.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/2012/SAM_2155BB.jpg[/IMG]
WP/ mids. The red line indicates the underside bevel tapering out behind the WP.
[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/2012/SAM_2154AA.jpg[/IMG]
Nose.
[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/2012/SAM_2153AA.jpg[/IMG]
So this technique adds a 3rd plane to the basic 2 plane BB rail design. It fills out more volume and gives more resistance for turning.
[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/2012/3planerails.jpg[/IMG]
The blue area is the underside bevel or angle that tapers out after the WP
The yellow area is the deck angle thats similar to the roll curve on a normal surfboard.
And the red area is the vertical plane that adds volume for better control and it adds volume to the tail area for better planing.
[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/2012/3planerails2.jpg[/IMG]
This is how I do the rails for a prone board. Shortboard rails are different.
Thats a very interesting post you have writen,
I have wrote bodyboards for nearly 20 years now, and 90% of the design changes seem to be around materials and flex. The board I ride now has pretty much the same 50/50 rails as the board I first bought.
in the bodyboard world the sale pitch is : 50/50 fast with lesshold, 60/40 slower but more hold.(its almost impossible to find a stock board with 70/30)
I think the bodyboard has a double chine rail all the way to the nose because of you see how there made its certianly easier to do that than to try to get the rail to trasition into a differant shape up front.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW1rWT6yCjU
The tom wegner seaglass tuna has a large single lower chine and as far as I can find is what Tom says the rail hold of the tuna comes from http://surfforsanity.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Tuna-5-3-concave-bottom.jpg
Its interesting to find what you have found contradicts all this!
Hi Krusher, ‘reading’ the Seaglass photo above, I would say that the angled rail would be easier to turn than if it was squared, And the chine also reduces the rail volume to lay the board over.
I would guess Tom, looking for something new, wouldn’t have wanted to do a standard ‘double flat’ angled BB rail so he did a ‘single flat’ style.
I haven’t ridden one of them but If looks to have a lot of bouyancy, especially out wide, the flat rail looks to be about 1.5 inches high and there’s a lot of volume between deck and hull.
Couldnt get the QCD vids to run but I too am surprised that with millions of BB’s worldwide, 99.9999% of them have 60/40 rails. My latest rail experiment is to do double flat 60/40 at the nose blending to a single flat 0/100 at the tail on a 50mm blank. So it starts like a standard BB and looks like the Tuna at the tail.
I think when the sales pitch says “hold” it’s not hold but the rail sinks in more because it has less volume. Suppose it comes down to the same thing but there are other ways to get hold without making a board slower.
Some of the vented/ported boards Im doing are going towards deep slots rather than wide holes so there’s less loss of planing area.
im not out to contradict anyone on purpose, I suspect it’s more a matter of different terminology and that English is my second language.
Always more than happy to learn so I can progress and find new things.
Are we sure about the “drag” bit? golf ball dimples make it fly further. Dont they trap air, and air the air friction is less than air to ball?