Nice hit hicksy!
Im glad someone on the EC is making a more advanced blank.
Looking forward to trying one.
More choices is great.
Clark WHO?
Questions without notice to Greg,
If you have production happening in Oz, how come we can’t get RR over here…?
Are you not allowed to sell to the public over here…?
Is this a contractual arrangement…?
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Flex/return is not as important as plain shape, foil, fin, and volume. Get these variables wrong but add perfect flex/return and the board will be a desaster.Flex/Return is only like 10% - 15% percent of the equation. And it really only shines on big turns.
That is one of the biggest mistatements I’ve ever heard. I have done extensive in-the-water testing of various types of flex in boards that had identical dimensions and weight - twenty boards at a time x multiple models. No guessing… not just a gut feeling… reality. I probably have the distinction of doing more of these types of tests than anyone else out there. I can say with authority that flex is extremely important to how a board surfs.
I second Kendall’s views on flex. It is extremely important, and it is determined by the surfers weight, skill/power, style, and the wave the board is to be surfed. This has always been my complaint about firewire - they run with the one flex fits all philosophy. As far as I’m concerned, any composite board that is not tuned to these characteristics only has strength going for it. I think Bert is the only person with enough experience to possibly create a system where mass produced boards can be customized.
Ok,
I stand corrected. Kendall you point is very well made. And to Bert’s comment I agree. I don’t want a board that is missing anything. The sum is certainly greater than the parts. I think my argument was miss formed. My intentions where aimed at quantifying my experiences regarding parabolic flex vs single stringered flex. We can start another thread on this someday.
Let me also make clear that I am a laymen. I have little too no surfboard building experience. I know how to ride them.
Finally, Bert I am not Rod. I do not wish to cause you any stress or grief. Feel free to Pm me and I will call you and apologize in person. I respect the fact that for many people involved this is there life’s work.
I stand behind everything I have posted under the name Monkeyshines. And, I am open to discuss anything people feel I have posted that is false.
Shine on you crazy Diamonds,
Monkeyshines
This whole Moneyshines/Rod thing has got me thinking. If there is truth
to the claim that this guy works for firewire then its a really
interesting read-between-the-lines. And imagine those guys at FW
collaborating carefully before hitting the post button. The bit in
which MS/Rod puts forward shape as more important than flex return:-
well, what if Bert’s the only one there who actually understands the
parabolic rail? And that is Bert’s biggest claim to fame yes? So it
would make sense for FW to now play down the role of the Parabolic rail
and start touting shape,volume,etc, all the traditional aspects of
board design. Its funny, I look again at the website, and I see theres
reference to three shapers, but no specific designs credited to them or
shaper decals on the boards. Bert seems to be the one who got the
credit for developing the technology, in the public eye. "Credit where
credit’s due." So now will those other two guys, probably bitter planer
pushing PU Has-beens, get pushed to the fore by the marketing men as the
design Gurus?
There is NO parabolic rail . . . . so there is no parabolic anything to understand !
As for perimeter stringers, lots of thecompsand guys do them, Tom Blake did them, Paul Jensen does them, and we do them too, flexible ones, since 1996.
It’s a simple concept, easily applied. . . … no mystery !
Got to keep them honest.
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ask Taj what his last board rode like ?? should i quote him ?
If it surfed crap (otherwise you wouldn’t have said it) then FW have a lot to worry about…
All it takes is one Pro Surfer to say a board is useless and thousands listen…
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All it takes is one Pro Surfer to say a board is useless and thousands listen...
Or… all it takes is for a pro surfer to be seen riding tons of your boards, then all of a sudden… stop.
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There is NO parabolic rail . . . . so there is no parabolic anything to understand !
As for perimeter stringers, lots of thecompsand guys do them, Tom Blake did them, Paul Jensen does them, and we do them too, flexible ones, since 1996.
It’s a simple concept, easily applied. . . … no mystery !
Got to keep them honest.
Thanks Roy. 
-Carl
Gary Young held some sort of patent on them
lets just call it “high/higher density rail material”
Nothing sinister about the fact that Aus doesn’t have our resins. No Aus. distributor wants to import quality epoxy. That simple. FW wanted to use quality stuff so they contacted me and we made a deal. In no way does this preclude anyone else from buying our stuff. But there is hope. A company out of England, Seabase is opening in Aus. They will have RR. I’m sorry that most of the powers that be down under want Aus board builders to stay in the poly world by not allowing you guys to see the kind of quality we’ve had in the US for over 20 years. It’s not like they don’t know or they haven’t been asked, is it?
The parabolic striger thing was a side deal with Warvel foam. I initiated this to help domestic manufacturing, something I still believe in. You now have a resource to buy perimeter stinger blanks and make something that the imports can’t … at least not yet. It was a gift to the industry I grew up in. No it’s not a FW but IMHO it’s something the US surf industry should embrace as a new product they can market against the imports. Were losing jobs folks. Some of us are still trying. No pressure from me though, use it or not.
Scott at Foam, Fins and Fiberglass recently had some Walker blanks with curved stringers set in from the edge a couple of inches with a high density foam outside the stringers. I don’t claim to know who came up with the idea or what they’re calling them but I bought one. Haven’t shaped it yet.
In a recent (Jan '07) Longboard Magazine Gary Linden has photos of finished boards with that stringer set up. A longboard is shown in the buyer’s guide and a separate Linden ad shows the same(?) board and a shortboard.
The magazine also has a nice wrap up of the current material thing.
adhesive technologies in NZ make great epoxys
clear, odourless with no blush
i think it may have even been used on NZ boats
in the Americas cup
i believe they export all around the world, including Australia
Ive been following this thread with interest…
Down the beach today… it was all happening kelly slater is out in the water surfing like superman on some board with weird stringers… like a reverse parabolic rail( sorry …stringer) or something, i’m not sure if this was helping him surf better, he also had some quad fin board on the beach that looked pretty nice, all you guys out there have a mid life crisis will be stoked about that.
Also Chatting to taj burrow after he got a few screamers he’s riding a nice looking fire wire with corecell deck aand parabolic balsa rail… seemed to be going pretty good, he did tell me that he had a couple of boards with a different foam though… similar construction different materials… that went really shit and didn’t even last the one surf.
Its like a lot of guy’s here on sways are saying, its damn difficult to make a strong light vac formed board that also goes good… its going to take a long time for everyone to wrap their mindds around the new tech… i think the guys at fire wire are really going to miss mr Burger… that guy knows his tech!
Scott Laurenson
Disclaimer…As many of you many know, I sell Firewire boards in my shop.
That said, there sure is a lot of presumptous, speculative and generally unfounded ill will, contained in this thread toward Firewire.
Bert is a big boy, can stick up for himself and will handle the changes life has dealt him. H e will be stronger for it and if he made a mistake in his recent endeavor, he probably won’t make it again! I along with all of you wish him huge success. And hope to God he didn’t wind up leaving with empty pockets… though sadly, that outcome would be rather typical of the surf industry.
But the real point of my post is regarding the Firewire product. Since we are a DEMO CENTER for FireWire and have a fairly good selection of boards. I can share our experiences so far.
After many Demos, we have not had one single person come back with a negative response. A few have kept the boards for several days! Many have told their friends who also had positive experiences. One local pro, is blown away with them and has video proving the dramatic change in his surfing. Many new boards have sold.
This is a great record for any product but it is particularly complimentary to Bert and is a stong validation for the concepts he popularized. Even if the current FireWires are not a full representation of his tech.
There are many surfboard brands. Some big some small. Some well financed some an economic disaster. Some with seemingly great soul, some with seemingly very little. There are as many designs as there are designers and customers. Most are powerfully convinced they are doing what no one else can and are surfing better then they probably are.
Some boards are molded, some machined, some hand made, some hacked out with only a Sureform. Boards are made in all kinds of different countries for all kinds of different reasons. And are made from all kinds of materials by all kinds of people with all kinds of different skills and understandings of what the heck they are doing! Including how they run the business side of making boards, if they even have a business or would know how to make it work if they wanted to be a business.
Among this vast depth of talent (and not so talented but having a whole lot of fun) are all kinds of characters seeking perfection in their hobbies, or maybe fame or fortune. Some created FireWire a marketing juggernaut for sure, some are organic, feral, soulmen, making what they think are the fastest boards in the world, we know and love Roy, but there are surely many more with equal character we don’t!
It is all good and all fun if taken in perspective. It should never be taken too seriously even though very serious issues will seduce those with talent into thinking there is a pot of gold at the end of that rainbow. To survive in it one must have a well developed sense of humor… especially about one’s self, mainly for being foolish enough to play in this whacky industry and expect to be fairly rewarded rather than be tragically disappointed somewhere along the line.
FireWire will make great boards and customers will love them. So will SurfTech, so will Bert and so will many of you Swaylockers and so will hundreds of other sufboard makers. Time, talent, customer preference and maybe a little luck and marketing hype will eventually define the winners, if there are such things in this business. Some may like their outcomes or the outcomes of other, some may not. How we view it, is pretty much of our own making.
Bert is probably going to be stoked soon enough to NOT be a part of firewire. Firewire is already looking shaky and very likely will go down the toilet. What are you going to do then Nev? Mabe get a job as an aspiring golf pro…
This is another enterprise that is gong to lose some ill informed investors a lot of money… Safer to by shares in Billabong
So Bill - Shifting a little here… Why did you deside to sell Firewires in Hawaii? Also wondering if you know there point of origin, maker. Or, if that matters to you?
with respect,
==ep
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we know and love Roy
Yep and his wax IS the stickiest!
