Firewire in Asia take Two: Bert's boards made In Asia

Industry Talk
21

I’ve already got my shaping robot, and my next will be a glassing robot.

Youve proly seen how they auto-tape lay ‘glare’ on airliner fuselages. I say, just get rid of glassing altogether.

And if I ever go to a restaurant and get waited on by a robot, Im outta there…HA!

Blakestah, I dont know the specifics but there’s so much wealth out there…look how many millionaires microsoft has made…there gotta be one wealthy surfer/entreprenuer/investor in the mix…you just gotta find’m and have a good plan…no question its risky but you know what they say, nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Patrick…its just debate.

Looking at those FW job postings…looks like theyre providing some fine domestic employment opportunities…how can you fault that?

Are people supposed to just lay down while overseas production is monopolized by one (maybe two) player? So FW is gonna compete in the non-custom market…good for them…I welcome more choices and competition.

Custom will always be in demand…hopefully that will stay domestic.

CHOICES gentlemen.

22
Quote:
Blakestah, I dont know the specifics but there's so much wealth out there...look how many millionaires microsoft has made...there gotta be one wealthy surfer/entreprenuer/investor in the mix...you just gotta find'm and have a good plan...no question its risky but you know what they say, nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Just because someone who is wealthy is also a surfer doesn’t mean he can’t add.

And if he can’t add, he won’t stay wealthy long.

23

Best way to win in this case is to offer what they can’t and that is by building the best product, with materials and expertise that are unavailable to Aisa. Force them to meet a new standard. Beat them with Ameriacan know how and our stratigic advantage of marketplace location. And remember, the importers are Americans. Take their market away from them and they will BAIL. Thialand is NOTHING without Mr. French. Likewise China is nothing without the Americans who are succeeding in the marketplace. They are the weak link that can be defeated. Make them believe that they’re selling s#&t by raising the technological bar and they’ll bail. Quality, value, image. That’s what it’s all about.

Suffice to say that we will be building boards in Asia eventually

I don’t think either one of us are going back on our words … at all.

Bert … I hope I didn’t put words in your mouth. (Greg Loehr)

i wont mention any names , but some in the know may figure a few things out …

over the last few years ive looked at options for increasing my production , but without the stress of having to employ people directly …

so i ended up having discussions and extensive dialog with various different asian production houses …

i would say if what you build can be easily reverse engineered , then think twice…

even if you do have a patent , many asian manufacturers have no respect for patents or copyright, a look at where all the pirate stuff comes from will answer that …

ive decided i dont want to be one of those names being quoted and held responsible for the undermining of our industry …

ill do what i feel i can live with …i enjoy a good nights sleep …and friendly faces in the line up …

regards

BERT

24

Many good points. Reality just dictates where business must go in today’s world. It is amazing that we convinced someone that domestic production was even worth persuing.

On this site is an article Gordon Clark wrote in 2004.

Read it!!!

In it, he tells what the surf world is like today. Mainstream!

In it, he makes realistic suggestions as to how to continue in this business in the future and how to compete with imports. Has anyone used any of these suggestions?

In it, he explains the reality of overseas manufacturing and the fact that they are better than we give them credit for.

In it, he points out the shortcomings of our own arrogant, discrimatory attitude about people of other countries, other cultures and other races.

In it, he explains why he gave up, why he thought we were at the end. Why he no longer felt that continued investment in us was worth his while.

In short he no longer believed we were competitive!!! Was he right? Perhaps. Look at the efficency of their business model vs. the inefficency of ours.

Read that article and you may then understand exactly why and what we are attempting to do. Why this program supports domestic surfboard building like no other presently in the sport. We are bucking every trend by investing in domestic production while EVERY OTHER BRAND is leaving!

Sell out? I wouldn’t describe what this is as that in today’s world.

25

A few weeks ago I was reading this article, a book review, in the Australian newspaper and saved it on my desktop. At the time I didn’t know why I did that, but it dawned on me how relevant it was to the surfboard industry particularly in the USA and Australia. Below are some excerpts. Say what you like about the French’s, Biolas, Bergers and Loeh’s, in my mind ALL these guys should be congratulated for facing reality and having a go,

April 01, 2006

SINCE the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989, three billion new capitalists have joined the world’s economy and, if economic analyst Clyde Prestowitz is right, we have only just begun to feel their influence.

"The dwindling role of the [US] dollar in international finance will mean a decline in living standards for the United States for the simple reason that America will no longer be able to run chronic trade deficits if other nations don’t have to accept dollars as payment. And no industry will be safe from competition. Services, research and development, and basic research, in which the West now leads the world, could all follow manufacturing to Asia.

“Whether slowly or quickly, the forces now bringing wealth and power to the East will also bring crisis and painful adjustment to the West. Although the East will regain its historic place as the centre of the world, it will also face huge challenges and crises that cannot be avoided.” They can be managed, he says, “if we wake up”.

Trouble is, Prestowitz doesn’t see that happening anytime soon. The West in general and the US in particular have what he sees as a head-in-the-sand approach to China and India. “While American business leaders say they want to be part of China’s strategy of economic development, the fact is America doesn’t have a strategy,” he says.

Three Billion New Capitalists by Clyde Prestowitz (Basic Books, au$39.95). Prestowitz is president of the Economic Strategy Institute in Washington.

Stick your head in the sand long enough, man with rickshaw will use your arse to park his bike…

26

Hey, I wouldn’t get all caught up in a big knot over my comment in regards to huge military budgets and environmental breakdown. You can flip flop the two interchangeably. The context of crafty remarks surely was misunderstood.

As for people in the know, why is this all such a mystery? Who is Firewire? If it’s going to be such a custom deal, wouldn’t you like t o know who is on the other end of custom?

27

Can’t beat 'em? join 'em!

OK. Just don’t expect me to swallow this:

I don’t think either one of us are going back on our words … at all.

28

http://www.swaylocks.com/forum/gforum.cgi?post=180473#180473

Quote:

Raising tariffs and changing government regulations on offshore products (Value?). Raising the awareness of the marketplace to the excellence of American product (Image?). Stopping the flow of American materials to Asia (Quality?). Draw focus to the uniquness of the American industry (Custom). All ideas that put off the enevitable but fail to really answer the challenge the we face. Best way to win in this case is to offer what they can’t and that is by building the best product, with materials and expertise that are unavailable to Aisa. Force them to meet a new standard. Beat them with Ameriacan know how and our stratigic advantage of marketplace location. And remember, the importers are Americans. Take their market away from them and they will BAIL. Thialand is NOTHING without Mr. French. Likewise China is nothing without the Americans who are succeeding in the marketplace. They are the weak link that can be defeated. Make them believe that they’re selling s#&t by raising the technological bar and they’ll bail. Quality, value, image. That’s what it’s all about. Change these three and you own the game. Sell the same thing they sell, for more money, and your history.

29

http://www.swaylocks.com/forum/gforum.cgi?post=241994;search_string=clark%202004;#241994 for Greg’s 2004

Robots are cool . … maybe within 20-30 years we will see advances in cybernetics and robotics to get those fine movements from robots like you see in Japanese anime series or in sci fi flicks in Terminator. And you will see stuff robots doing that you’d never think they would be applied for.

things will change . . .

Hmm no one saw it coming . . . you’re in the background, suddenly you’re big time, media coverage is high, you got big industry support. It wouldn’t be in Firewire’s best business interest to avoid making a “cheap” line to compete with the “cheap” surfboards. An no one can copy better and cheaper than China.

“If you can find a surfboard cheaper somewhere else, SUURRF it!!”

While Clark was strong and in power Bert and Greg L weren’t in big time. Clark was. Clark however was able to support the domestic surf industry as long as he could until he stepped out. Why he did can be covered in another thread. Clark was able to please his stakeholders, yet doing things he believed in, such as helping us out. Shoot he made a planer, even gave us blanks with stringers and close tolerances.

He was able to do both.

But as Greg L says . . . even he knew about the lack of competition domestic has.

But now they are big time, big business. Big money, big profits, big market, time to take

Its easy to say before you are in corporated, you can easily stick to the soul. But based off Greg, Bert, and Speed’s posts, Firewire is going big time, and they have money.

Usually its investors investing $ into a newly formed company. You have to please your stakeholders. Firewire started out. Based off the aggrandized statements Bert / SPeed / Greg have been making even before Nev came on the scene, and after, they MUST deliver or die.

A biz has one year to surivive, once that year is up its most hardest time has passed. . . .

I don’t think Firewire are selling out. If they were you’d see them close the domestic production facilities . … close after opening the China ones.

In business there is a fine balance between soul and corporate . . .

Sure Bert / Greg / Speed et al had to start up their asian counterpart.

Last time I checked, Firewire crews are people. And people change. Only God never changes.

So Bert / Greg / Speed changed. I have changed. When I started surfing, I totally was the longboard, soul, pu/pe crew. No ASP maneuvers, no shortboard, But then I got a shortboard . . . and an old surfer told me I was young, so go hotdog with the best I can.

See you have to look after yourself. You can’t help others if you can barely help yourself. . . there is a pardox about a wounded healer, but that’s another post . …

Now looking back . . . Maybe Matt was doing his switch to cover himself.

Possibly what firewire is going. They are looking ahead. Their boards will be examined and challenged and possibily not being accepted by the surf populus. And lots of people compete and shop by price. . . running a business and not taking advantage of a weapon called price and everyone is using that weapon . … gotta adapt.

INteresting to follow and see.

But at last. We will ride a burger. only the future will see if Burger is King, your way, right away. But there’s competition, Macca’s and In and Out. or Sonic.

30

My personal opinion is that Greg loehr is constantly fighting contradictions within himself. On the one hand there’s the craftsman who wants to make a superior product. That part of him sees success as the production of that superior surfboard. Then there’s the marketeer Greg, who sees success monetarily. In surfboards you can’t have it both ways. You want to make great product, you aren’t going to make much money. You import boards and you’ll make far more. I’ve seen this for years in the terms of making epoxy vs. polyester boards. Nearly everyone knows which product is superior yet the vast majority still does it the old fashioned way. It’s fear of making that jump and how it may effect you financially. So most just rationalize that what they do is good in terms of the status quo and not step into the unknown.

Imagine if Al Merrick were to import his production of over 10,000 boards a year. He’d make $100 more per board than getting them produced in the US. Anyone with a calculator from the local dollar store can figure that one out. But there’s that fear of repercussions (the unknown) and that craftsman inside still wanting to have a personal hand in it. Nearly all successful marketing shapers are wrestling with these issues at this point in time. Greg just seems to personify these contradictions best at this point in history and his recent responses are poinient to that.

31

Wait, what??? I got sick to my stomach reading this crap. This is the sound of me driving my big truck I can’t afford full of boards I haven’t built yet and money I may never make through the front door of my heavily leveraged too-rootsy American owned business, make sure you hit the computer in the back room, Drew. SPLAT!!! Oh, it’s past April 14th again? DAMMIT!! Nah, just kidding. THE SIMPLE BEAT THE FAKE!!! Remember that, write it down somewhere… Keep your head down, keep your eyes on the ball. Profits, spread sheets, mortgages, overhead, soul, Black Monday, blah blah blah. Pricing. Who’s the Man??? You’re the man. Hey, if you guys have the “industry foresight” to outsource labor, have done all the number crunching, and all that sweet stuff, then take an extra five minutes of research to remember the roots. If you can make a push into overseas production (not just the guys that this post is referring, but each and every surfer involved) then you have big balls. Seriously. Now stand up, grab your big balls and look at yourself in the mirror. Repeat: I SOLD OUT. You did. Now, who’s calling you out??? Broke board builders. Remember that, too. Joe Shredder will buy your product. You’re going to kill it. My business side says “Cheers guys, get your money, I’m sure you deserve it.” Good job. I just wish my business side was stronger than my Surfer, I’d do it too. But suck it up, quit back-stepping and defending yourselves!!! I’m sick of hearing that crap. You sold out, take it like a man. So, the two biggest domestic manufacturers, huh?? Please tell me you’re hiring surfer labor. Anyway, who cares? Kelly’s taking Gwenyth out at Tavarua tomorrow, I can get Volcom Baggies anywhere Hanes are sold, the bubble will pop soon. Surfing won’t be this cool forever. The crowds will thin, you might get stuck with a container or two of shitty product you can’t sell, but who cares? You’ll be fuggin rich, bitch.

32

It is irrelevant to play ostritch to a paradigm shift that is/has been so patently obvious for years:

For or against…tuff titty

Hold 'em or fold 'em…tuff shit

Make it or break it…tuff darts

Rail or fail…tuff noogies

Jurn or burn…tuff stuff

With or against…tuff meatus

Ride with the tide…tuff swimming

Like it or lump it…tuff titty again

Reality just IS…so, tuff shit again

Get it??

Greg and Bert can rationalize reality to the dullard masses as they will, but it doesn’t really matter to those with a few sequentially firing neurons…it simply, obviously, IS!

Anybody think that Greg/Bert have the last word in the hardware progression?

33

so… status symbol boards to put on the Hummer, and Walmart boards for the kids.

Wow.

34

I think you all are missing the point here. Who cares about offshore competition and market pressures. The robots are coming!?!?!?!

Children of Earth continue to resist robot invasion [/url]

http://www.boingboing.net/2006/03/15/children_of_earth_co.html

How To Survive a Robot Uprising : Tips on Defending Yourself Against the Coming Rebellion

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1582345929/sr=1-1/qid=1145412894/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-0099831-2891310?%5Fencoding=UTF8&s=books

35

If I take what you say in your post and run it through the philosophy of your signature…given that everyone has the same privledge of saying what they want and doing what they feel, if I was Greg and Bert, who are doing just that, I’d say you are one of those who doesn’t matter. Because you obviously mind. And those that mind don’t matter.

Glad we got that cleared up.

36

lol@ robot invasion.

I was kinda in a hurry with my first post. Kinda bummed about this too. I mean if you look back, in some cases, a part of me felt that Bert and Greg were seeking to bring the domestic American / Australian surf back up with their new tech and board manufacturing skills.

sell out, hyppocrite? definition of sell out:

Selling out is a common slang phrase. Broadly speaking, it refers to the compromising of one’s integrity, morality and principles in exchange for money, success or other personal gain. It is commonly associated with attempts to increase mass appeal or acceptability to mainstream society. A person who does this is labelled a sellout.

Many people see nothing wrong with tailoring a product to the tastes of its audience, or with taking practical and financial considerations into account when making art. And, in regard to theater shows, musicals, etc, a “sell out” show is simply a show so popular that all tickets are sold out, and is generally considered as a milestone in terms of success. Selling out may be then gaining success at the cost of credibility. Though generally associated with the entertainment industry, regular individuals who similarly compromise their ideals (e.g. a Bohemian individual who suddenly switches to a socially conservative lifestyle) could also be considered sellouts.

from wiki wiki wiki pedia

But sell out is a subjective term depending who you talk to. For some touching EPS is a sell out because you are volan / pu / pe brah. Others selling out would be you have the greatest surfboard, tailorable to all shapes and sizes of surfers, and you decide to only keep it for yourself and locals, because your original goal is to spread the love.

Now Bert says he’s phat (in good term) and Greg’s got uber surf goods. They want everyone to ride it is their goal. If this means spreading the love at a lower cost via Asia . . . They’re actually sticking true to their ‘roots’ of wanting to provide everyone with great surf vehicles.

Or you got someone who says, I got a way for you to turn the domestic surf industry around. Ok I’ve set up local setups. Wait i can make some extra bling, my child needs a diamond grill. Oh yeah, Asian factories . . . might as well. Whoo hoo extra money. 'Hey guys I need to stay alive even though you know domestic customers will more than fill my bank so I’m going to build factories to compete with the turned around domestic surf industry I just helped.

Who’s to say?

How about objective? I want the ASP top 44, at least 50% of them using my boards. I don’t care if my boards is the queen, wife, fiance, or what, concubine, mistress, or girl in the stable status (disclaimer, its is always better to go with one love instead of multiple) I just want them riding something with my name on it.

Ok . . .

But it a case it is true. I know and feel that surfing domestic shapers can beat out (meaning capture the reputation, hearts, and minds of surfers, not necessarily market share or profits) non surfer ‘shapers or shaping systems’ . Gotta use what strengths you do have, cover your weaknesses, and exploit the holes in your competitor’s and do a better job of it than they do.

Two surfers spot a familiar triangular shape. One of them begins to paddle. The other removes his leash, gets the kelp bulbs outta the way, breaks his fin off, puts on paddling gloves. The one paddling through the kelp, says, “Hey you can’t out paddle a shark!” The other surfer says, ‘yeah you’re right, I just need to outpaddle you.’

Well so much for trade secrets, its alot harder to keep them when you go overseas. But maybe it isn’t. Maybe the Firewire Asia will be like the tech that was used 15 years ago.

I’m of the school, where soul isn’t in a board. No matter how its made or how much hands on handling (with care) its still a board. Soul isn’t in the fact you can blow your own foam with your hands. Soul is linked with life. A inert object like a board doesn’t have a soul. Now the surfer that rides the board has a soul. A shaper has it too. So does the worker in China.

But the best design usually comes from the users or input in from the users. Who knows? Maybe China will take up surfing. Maybe they will be the ones to make jet powered surfboards, so you can ride the winds?

The best stuff comes from people who take pride and enjoyment in what they do. You take people who do it for pay, and they’re just in it for the money. But you take someone who really loves what they are doing, and they put something above adn beyond the guy doing it for $$. There is where you get a great surfboard. Some people confuse this with soul.

Like some have been saying, I think domestic can beat China on their own ground. They have cheap labor, cheap raw materials, and some of the surf industry best showing them how. They got the drive, they got extra time. But since they’ve never surfed . … they just only go with what they’ve been shown, or what the machine spits out. Pre ordered menu, no deviations. You want custom, ok pick your color or fin box type.

A local board shaping crew realizes they have the love, the drive. They have access to the uber CNC machine Blakestah is talking about. Plus some of the crew are experience shapers, and show the younger crews how its done. Take the CNC machine and hand them a large chunk of foam and hand tools, and they can crank out shapes. They know how fins work and the fin expert can fill in the rest. But they use the CNC machine to rapidly produce shapes. And since they do surf, they know how and why the surfboard works. And they crank out quality shapes. Good surfers know these guys and gals know their shit. Good surfers hit them up. Whether it is Mavericks to 1 ft OC slop, their boards work well for the conditions they were shaped from. This is absolute custom. Raquel talks to the 215 lb surfer that wants rooster tails in 4 foot walls, and she knows how to create the board to do it. Ben can watch a surfer take on mushburgers, then shape a gun for indo waters.

Monty the manager knows how to keep the EPA off the back, prevent people from getting blisters, and generally keeping up the morale . . .

So someone wants the best of both worlds . . . more power to them . . . No matter what happens, though Greg and Bert did open my mind and added some water to the great well of hope . . .

37

reality check !!!

there was another thread about R.R. and future shapes in the news …

some speculative comments popped up and i thought , when i get time i will lay down a basic summary of whats gone down and what were up to …

still no time for that , but at least a reply to a thread gone wrong…

a question to all …

how can we keep domestic production a viable local option ???

in todays business world you have 2 options , get smart or go to china …

so if you want to compete with a locally made board and actually stay in business ,then technology will help …

when velzy started making boards or even those previous , they used a combination of there design knowledge and there hand skills to carve out a board …

then the electric planer arrives , still the same designer with a better tool …

so the shaping machine arrives , still a designer , a surfer , using a tool which allows him to deliver a locally made custom board at a competitive price …

what greg said about the 2 biggest locally made production houses is true …

for this industry to survive , to prosper and progress , designers need to be nurtured , how can that happen if the whole industry is colapsing ???

how can surfboard designers/surfers actually have even a remote chance of continuing in there carreers if there industry no longer exists , because retailers want more profits…

what we are setting up are 2 state of the art factories , with the latest in technology , so when a designer plugs a design in , out comes a custom made board …

we are simply introducing a better tool …

all because were passionate about keeping production and surfboard designers local …

still a surfer, a designer with a better tool …

what is cooler than spending time with your shaper nutting out a design ?

talking design rap and learning some cool things about your boards design …

tell me , how many shapers now have the time to spend quality time with a customer ???

what we are setting up will give designers the time to spend with there customers , plus give them a totally new set of tools , that not only satisfy local authorities in regards to EPA laws , but also satisfy there customers with a solid locally designed and made board , designed for the individual surfer , the customer can actually spend time having input in his boards design , make suggestions if needed then actually visualise the finished shape , graphics and all …

local factories making all custom designed and made boards , but the designer could be sitting with you at the beach …

but not every surfer will opt for a high end custom made board , my forte is design , im a shaper , hell ,i want to keep my job , i love dealing with customers one on one , i get satisfation with knowing i listened and put in effort to putting the right board under there feet …

nothing pains me more than a guy walking into a shop and a bimbo pushing the latest you beaut asian clone of a local shaper model onto a guy who the board clearly wont suit , but she doesnt know because she just works there …

yes , greg alluded to the fact that we will also offer a lower priced entry level board , a grommets board , a board to get a kid in the water and turn him into a surfer …

ultimatly we want him to return as he progresses to get a locally made custom …

if we dont offer a cheaper kids board , then he will only get it from another source and potentially keep running with that label and stay on asian pop outs the rest of his life …

im calling the whole sell out tag , bullshit …

i could have sold out good and proper 5 times over , yet i chose to remain a small time producer and poor unless i could find the right people to work with , who shared my passion for surfing , and who shared my passion for making a locally made product…

in both factories we are setting up production of gregs resin , making our own foam , a whole range of technologies to make producing locally viable …

i havent gone back on any previous statements or comprimised one bit …

i dont make moulded boards , im a local board builder interested in keeping my industry alive …

we have incorparated other swaylockers with the skills and know how to make a cheaper entry level molded board , that is totally different tech , not future shapes , not what ive spent my life fine tuning …

and the whole concept behind it is to nurture younger surfers to progress to a locally made custom and show them how important a designer who surfs the local conditions is …

there are 2 ways to keep surfing alive and well with boards being made locally …

the backyarder being inspired to keep progressing and a financially viable local surfboard industry …

by all accounts every move by the major labels and other bigger surfing companies has been in a direction that has undermined both those options …

does anyone think ive done the wrong thing ???

by actually encouraging those 2 options , the back yarder and a local industry …

what im doing is not for the money , its about getting more crew into something that will stoke them , to enjoy there surfing like i enjoy mine …

not much joy in going through 10 surftech models to eventually find one thats close but not quite in the style or colour you wanted …not much joy in buying disposable surfboards …

im not motivated by money or fame …

im motivated by a quest for knowledge …

my wife is having more fun spending my cash , im still driving the same car , still wearing the same resin covered shorts , still concerned ive got the right board for the conditions in the back of my car …

below is the last board i designed for someone , for small soft waves …

taking it to the next level …

thats my interest …

creating the next level …

is my goal …

if in the process im enjoying my job and helping an industry and way of life im passionate about , then thats a bonus …

if crew out there see it any other way or misinterpret my actions , well thats a shame , hope you guys figure it out …

regards

BERT



38

Good for Bert and Greg. Listen, if we got the real price for manufacturing a surf board we wouldn’t be in this mess. We sell surfboards new boards for $300.00 and then complain about how we don’t make any money. 4 days of hard work and $150 in material only nets you $150. We caused the problem “bro deal” and now others are making sound business decisions, and trying to make some cash.

Let’s face it surfboards should be selling for $800-$1K. Heck my buddy just got got a new custom shaped Chapman Brewer 9 '1 gun. Air Brushed by Alexander, glassed to perfection. It was shaped post Dec 5. Whopping cost $620.00. You ever see the little rusted out car Craig Chapman drives around in, and he makes fantastic surfboards. We are doomed.

-Jay

39
Quote:

If I take what you say in your post and run it through the philosophy of your signature…given that everyone has the same privledge of saying what they want and doing what they feel, if I was Greg and Bert, who are doing just that, I’d say you are one of those who doesn’t matter. Because you obviously mind. And those that mind don’t matter.

Glad we got that cleared up.

EXACTLY. I hope Greg and Bert understand what you wrote. I don’t matter, and shouldn’t in anyone else’s business decisions. My post was about desperation. I definitely don’t take anything back, but I’m most definitely guilty of beating a dead horse. I understand overseas production, I don’t blame anybody for doing that. BUT, it is what it is. So, no more beating a dead subject. What I’d like to understand is this: so, China finally figured out they’re making China boards? Right? I mean, the notion of offering new technology to local board builders is a very noble one. Should be applauded!! I guess in my hasty reading of this post, this is what I gathered. So, they know they’re making China boards, why not open a domestic facility and escape printing “made in China” on the things. Just what we needed. I guess that was paranoia… From what Bert wrote, good job. I’ll be waiting for my invitation to try the latest technology. Maybe that will help “crew” compete in the industry. I’d like to know the answer. BUT, from what I thought I understood from Greg’s post, it seemed like they want to open the 2 largest domestic facilities to compete in that niche market. WHY WOULD THAT BE GOOD??? Please tell me that I got something messed up there. But, if they’re opening up these huge factories I just can’t comprehend how this will help already struggling domestic builders. If they’re making Resin Research products to hopefully lower our costs, GOOD JOB!! If we can seriously benefit from using the technology at these state of the art facilities, GOOD JOB. If they’re just opening huge facilities for Firewire to build boards to compete with mine, well, oh well. Gee thanks. I hope some people don’t get offended by my offering 2 cents up here. No one can convince me that going to overseas production isn’t selling out, quite contrarily that’s the very definition. No matter who’s technology, design, label, whatever gets sold out, it is just that. I mean, you have to expect someone to be sad about anything getting sold out, anything. From how much beach get’s overdeveloped to surfboards going to sweat shops (or even the most hi-tech facilities ever dreamed of) it’s sad to somebody. I’m just offering up my perspective on it. I should just get back to work, and turn this stupid computer off. My piece of this pie gets smaller and smaller by the minute…I really hope this new technology is some sick shit!!! More than that, I hope this isn’t the last new technology…Think about that.

40

you’re not in it for the money… so, your new venture is set up as a non-profit, then?