Firewire in Asia take Two: Bert's boards made In Asia

Quote:

Greg- Your epoxy products are the best. Thank you for TEACHING US all how to use them.

Bert- Your information FREELY GIVEN is what got me started vac pressing and looking at new ways of constructing surfboards.

The information Greg and Bert (and many others) share here is something I truly appreciate and if I was looking for a professionally made, custom board, I’d probably look to them just because of my good experiences with them so far.

However, I still enjoy what I think Swaylock’s is about, making your own, sharing what you learned, helping others.

My feelings exactly!!!

PoeRava

Firewires website is now running.

Check it out at http://www.firewiresurfboards.com/

Hi Wildy - I haven’t been over to this side of the website in a while and was surprised that this thread is still going. I had thought it was removed.

As I look through the website I can’t help but wonder how they call those boards custom, or ultra-custom. I’m not saying they are anything less than good, and original, and maybe the most durable surfboard out there, but from looking over the information they are putting out it brings back the feelings I got when Wayne Lynch put his mug on the Evolution expansion.

I hope I’m wrong, but scares me when the corporate partners get involved.

Do they know yet who is going to be shaping, and glassing these customs in San Diego? The last thing I had heard is that they were still looking for a head laminator.

With the advertising going ahead before production it make me wonder if the cart is walking ahead of the horse. Just my 2 cents.

proctor makes custom composites as well

http://www.proctorsurf.com/proctorepoxyseriesb.html

Epac, I don’t know how they are going to do the ‘customization’ , since they are in the same city as I am, I could check them out . . . when they are up and running (they / them = firewire) . The site doesn’t have a size chart like Rich Harbour does, or factoring into skill (with descriptions like: intermediate, can trim, link several manuvers, comfortable in OH + conditions etc . . . )

I’ll use Rich Harbour surfboard as an example. They choose retailers that are knowledgeable, helpful, and willing to help the surfer, even if it means losing a potential sale. They know what breaks / conditions / skill level / weight etc affect how that model is going to ride, and tell a surfer looking at buying why and no’s or yes’s.

And also you can visit the forum, explain, and then Rich Harbour usually comes and answers you. Plus their dedication to customer satisfaction is high, so all surfers I know that surf a Harbour says good things about them.

Is Firewire going to choose retailers that can do the above? Or will you be able to talk to a shaper and get it made? will their site have a forum that does the same?

Mottola, the proctor flexible epoxy looks like it has a CI Flyer esque shape . . . the s fiberglass and carbon fiber with epoxy seems like a good combo . . . not the style of compsand that Bert & Co are going for, but to me I think it qualifies it as a compsand, the carbon fiber makes it so!!

[=1][=Black][ 2]“all surfers I know that surf a Harbour says good things about them.”[/][/]


Ditto.[/]

from an unnamed but very credible source (no naming names so don’t ask):

Firewire current production target in San Diego = 100 boards per week; production target once “fully automated” = 500 boards per week.

500 custom boards per week.

Add production in China on top of that.

exciting website, heaps of info. all we needed to know is there. can we go surfing now?

i am not trying to be negative but realistic.

i really liked Bert sandwich thread and also like Greg advice on epoxy but…

those guys know their stuff.

but…

sorry, the website kinda suck.

i mean they could have done real boards and made a more tech explanation of the technologie.

they have 4 boards?

wow they really gonna kick surtech ass…

i mean they have backup form the ex-billabong ceo,

they have investor, NEV… allsort of connections… they could have really kickedass. a couple grand in nice tech site,

fresh new line of real boards, not photoshop special with cheap colors choice like a ikea couch…

boards with nice templates…

4 boards? is that puching the boudaries of the shortboards?

it was suppose to be the technology, the future… the website looks like its was done for 300$ fro the kid across the street.

if you guys need help let me know.

Quote:

i am not trying to be negative but realistic.

i really liked Bert sandwich thread and also like Greg advice on epoxy but…

those guys know their stuff.

but…

sorry, the website kinda suck.

i mean they could have done real boards and made a more tech explanation of the technologie.

they have 4 boards?

wow they really gonna kick surtech ass…

i mean they have backup form the ex-billabong ceo,

they have investor, NEV… allsort of connections… they could have really kickedass. a couple grand in nice tech site,

fresh new line of real boards, not photoshop special with cheap colors choice like a ikea couch…

boards with nice templates…

4 boards? is that puching the boudaries of the shortboards?

it was suppose to be the technology, the future… the website looks like its was done for 300$ fro the kid across the street.

if you guys need help let me know.

Thats only the beginning of things to come…

I’m waiting for someone to post ‘inside of a bert berger’ and show it in all completeness:

from the site:

laughing man at the buford demo at the bottom

WHERE CAN I BUY A BOARD?

Our San Diego factory is currently filling orders for a few San Diego Dealers for delivery this summer; South Coast Surf Shop will have boards available by July 1st. By November, we will have boards available through select surf shops across the US. As we add dealers, we will post that information in the find-a-dealer section on our site.

WILL YOU OFFER CUSTOM SURFBOARDS?

As I’m sure you can appreciate, these boards are time consuming and complex to build. With that in mind, in 2006 we are limiting our offering to the models listed on our website. In September, we will be taking custom orders for delivery in early 2007.

WHAT ABOUT LONG BOARDS?

Future Shapes Technology (FST) works insanely well on longboards. Some of our best feedback has come from the longoards we have made. Right now, our FIREWIRE brand is dedicated to pushing the boundaries of short board performance. We are expanding our two factories to accommodate our growth, and utilizing all of our resources to produce shortboards. Therefore, we will not be producing long boards under the FIREWIRE label. Down the road, we will apply FUTURE SHAPES TECHNOLOGY to longboards through a separate company with its own identity and product tailored to that market.

CAN I ORDER ONLINE?

Currently, No. In the short term with limited production capacity, 2006 will be geared towards floor sales within our dealer network. We are currently expanding our two factories, one in San Diego, and one in Australia. Once those are fully online later this year, we will be able to meet all facets of demand, including online ordering through our dealers with the best online surfshop sites.

WHAT WILL THEY COST?

Final retail pricing is still to be determined. However, due to the complex production processes, combined with the performance and durability of FIREWIRE Surfboards, they will be priced at the upper end of current surfboard pricing. Well below $1,000, but certainly more than current PU surfboards. We believe that the price to value equation will still be very much in a surfer’s favor.

WHY IS THERE A PLUG IN THE MIDDLE OF THE TOP DECK?

To create the lightness of our EPS core, considerable air is trapped in the blank blowing process. The vent allows the board to breath. In fact, we believe that all surfboards would benefit from this feature. The valve incorporates a GORE TEX membrane that allows air to escape while preventing water from entering. Therefore you do not need to adjust the valve at any time.

CAN MY BOARD GET DINGED?

While significantly stronger than conventional PU, FIREWIRE surfboards are not indestructible. In the event your board gets dinged, dry the area thoroughly, and fix it using basic epoxy resin available from all hardware stores and many surfshops.

CAN I JUMP ON MY BOARD?

There is no doubt that FIREWIRE surfboards can withstand someone standing directly on the inverted bottom deck. However, keep in mind our boards are designed to flex on waves not in the parking lot.

We showed the flex characteristics on our site to you give you an indication of the rapid response and strength. While we do not recommend that you step on your board, if you must please follow these instructions carefully to avoid damaging the tip of the nose where the board is extremely thin and narrow, or the area around the leash plug.

  1. Remove all leash components, including the attachment string.
  2. Lay the surfboard bottom deck upwards on a padded carpet or beach sand, with a folded towel or a similar soft padded object underneath the nose to support it. Ideally you should pad the tail as well.
  3. The padding should not be more than two (2) inches thick as the board is not designed to flex much more than the rocker curve.
  4. Stand on the board around the mid point and watch as the rocker flattens under your weight.
  5. As you step off, you’ll notice the rapid rebound and you can imagine how that would increase your speed coming out of turns.

hey silly , ive seen those boards from New zealand , real nice work , i used to have this one kiwi who always brought his boards to us for repair because we were the only guys who even knew how his board was even made , so could fix it with some care …

some interesting comments …

one important thing i have learnt from being involved in this project , it takes a bunch of real talented people to put something like this together , sometimes i take a step back and just go WOW when i see the professionalism of everyone around me …

that being said , the whole thing ,like any business ,is a constant exercise in refinement , there is always room for improvement and everyone is always looking at ways of making things better …

epac made the comment about the cart before the horse …

marketing always has a lag period , by the time articles or adds eventually hit the stands , team riders get results , feedback starts to circulate you could be looking at 6 to 12 months , then there is always the challenge of having to make a little more noise to get noticed if your selling the same thing as everyone else , so crew in marketing usually have a tough job …

but in this case there may be an element of truth in your comments , as there has already been some hype , plus the uniqueness of the boards makes the marketing a little easier , for me the reaction to the boards was predictable as ive seen it all before and was warning of some serious interest , but for some of the crew who have more recently got involved , there have been some surprises at the level of response and interest …

while we are still going through interviews in the states for suitable people , our gold coast factory is now producing nicely , we already have a good core group of long established board builders , in fact now that i think of it , there is not one guy in our current factory with less than 20 years of board building behind them …

so over 90% of our current production is heading to the states every week , so while it may look like the marketing is out of sync with the rest of the business , its just that whats being set up in california is not as established as what is set up in Oz …

the production numbers i saw quoted are a little higher than anything ive seen before , while its good to set the bar high , i think its a case of just doing it and see what we can achieve , it sounds to me like the comments may have gone past one or 2 people and grown on the way …

the china comments ?

no boards will be produced in china or in any asian country at all in the forseeable future …

while there was a plan to run a cheaper entry level molded board , basically a groms board to hopefully be made in thailand , that whole direction has now been scuttled , due to the potential to devalue a core locally produced premium surfboard brand , plus the whole concept was greeted with a not so welcome reception once certain comments were made public , this helped to make things clearer , so to all the passionate responses on the import subject , thanks guys …

you all know my feelings on the import issue , so the decision was welcomed by me …

so now the full focus is on the gold coast and san diego for custom boards , with the crew who were going to work on the molded boards now focussing solely on our local production …

while the focus is on custom , in the early stages we would prefer to get some production line stuff going , by making set models to create a routine and to help establish our systems and train crew …

it is just the beginning , and im sure were going to make a heap of mistakes , so the value of feed back even here at sways is invaluable and it really helps us refine things even quicker …

that means comments that come across as critical , in reality have real value to us …

i also noticed someones first post …

hey scotty …

if everyones attempts at building composite boards are as good as the ones ive seen rsl do , then were in for some major change , one real talented board builder , scotty has an even bigger reason to be thankful as well , before i left west oz and moved the whole factory permanently , scotty inherited a furniture trailer full of goodies , at least i know it all went to a good home …

tell J.R. that he should have something in 3 weeks …

well thats some of the latest …

regards

BERT

ps , speedneedle recomended Greg for a nobel prize and i second it , never in my life have i used such a production friendly epoxy , flipping and sanding laps within 2 hours , hot coats that flow out like a gloss but dont run off the rails , clearer than water , the lowest odour of any resin ive ever used …

if it wasnt true i would suspect it was marketing hype , but no way , its the real deal …

production times resembling mekp cured polyester resin , i cant believe i was doing it the hard way all those years

Hey Bert . . . I noticed the boards you had at the 2005 contest at huntington are different than the firewire boards I saw the recent surfermag fish fry . . .

the huntington boards had full on balsa, but the firewire ones didn’t . . . any differences between the two or if you can give a reason, it’d be cool . . .

Bert, a comment made by you in Nov. 2004:

well , it looks like plan b …

a while back there was a conversation happening about new materials , new techniques, the pressure on the existing industry , i remember commending greg loehr for being willing to pound the pavement and bring new materials and concepts to the existing surfboard industry …

myself , having had my fair share of pounding the pavement and pushing something different , was quite happy to sit back and watch things change , for better or worse , it wouldnt really affect me coz ive got more work than i could do in a lifetime …

so ive decided i can do my bit for an industry that is feeling pressure from many sides , and thanks to swaylocks i can do it from the comfort of my own small production set up and not have to pound the pavement …

what ive got in mind for this thread is showing you guys the principles of vacumn forming and building custom sandwich boards …

i know some crew will think its crazy to just give so much away …

but ive been doing this for so long now that ive pretty much solidified my position in this field , i feel i dont have to hide things anymore , even if plenty of board builders went in this direction , it wont change anything for me , im not giving everything away , but i will show stuff that i was doing years back and some construction concepts thatll have some of you foaming at the mouth …the reality is , its not as easy as people think , to invent something then make big money from it , ive got to the stage where all i wanna do is go surfing and enjoy life , every possible way there is to make a dollar from intellectual property always involves , hard work , more hard work and sacrifices im just not willing to make anymore , lifes just to easy these days , hanging with the family , going surfing,skating,or sandboarding with the kids , and making a few boards each week , so if im just gonna sit on this knowledge and do nothing with it , then i might as well pitch in and help out with what i know …and if any of you guys run with it and incorporate it into a production , just remember me , where you got it , and maybe give me a mention …

for me thats a way nicer scenario then having to deal with corporate bullies who just wanna cut you out the picture , or run with your ideas claiming they own it , coz they have the money to say what they want …at the end of all this i might get some better offers or opportunities , you never know ???

i know the asian production houses can benefit from some of this stuff , but the ones that will benefit most will be the custom board builders , coz as it stands at the moment surftech have surged into an open market with no competition …companies like salomon and surftech have set a benchmark pricing structure , but none of them can deliver true customability , so already you should be able to see a margin there , plus a competitive edge …

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WORD UP! I know your a good marketer Bert. There’s no doubt you knew all along

that the Asia idea was lame, and there’s no doubt that you can build a much better CORE reputation making boards in-house. You can be a major underground threat if your willing to grow slow. Get the army of CORE supporters behind you and you’ll gain momentum that will be hard to stop. Try to max out profits in the first several years and you’ll be flipping so many burnt-Bergers you’ll want to puke. Build your rep with rippers and weekend warriors alike by producing the superior custom product that you know how to build and you’re moving and gaining weight at the same time. You and Greg both know what it takes and you’ve both been endowed with the gifts of superior foresight and large cajones. Don’t doubt your ability to totally change everything for the better of the industry and for yourselves, I don’t.

Build it yourself, and they will come…

Thanks Bert. All the best x7. Keep an eye out for my “Surftech goes overseas… to Watsonville,CA?” tread and my application in the mail. I don’t have 20 years experience building boards, but I’m dumb enough to try and make a living building hardgoods like you, Greg and Dilbert.

For the love, for the industry, for the people… including me.

-Trannydogooder

P.S. Still free lapping?

Quote:

In it, he explains the reality of overseas manufacturing and the fact that they are better than we give them credit for.

So What? Were America to hold those we deal with to the same standards they hold American businessmen, they would not be so competitive. And We can’t forget their human rights records. For some reason that simply no longer bothers surfers. I wonder what would have happened if some of these same American surfboard companies would have located in South Africa during the eighties to get labor cost dirt cheap.

In it, he points out the shortcomings of our own arrogant, discrimatory attitude about people of other countries, other cultures and other races. Certainly this exist in America (China too BTW) but it absolutely nothing to do with this issue or problem. The reason they can do labor cheap is they can treat their people anyway they choose and pay is low. They provide labor as a product. Some of the factories over there are much nicer than factories here, but I wonder what the standard of living of the lower end workers is there vs the same surfboard worker here. I don’t think racism is why people are questioning these things.

In it, he explains why he gave up, why he thought we were at the end. Why he no longer felt that continued investment in us was worth his while. I wish I could disagree with this…but it’s becoming obvious. It’s like having a child that simply refuses to do anything right and never learns from his mistakes.

Also Greg…I hope you guys pull it off, but until then it simply looks like another promise of the latest greatest. Also…I have never been much of a fan of mass produced surfboards. Many of the promises I read about this, just seems so familar.