Firewire - Okay so who's buying them?

are those times with UV or regular poly?

and if if it’s regular poly are you ale to effectively sand you laps and hotcoats in those time frames?

Also how many bodies would you have to employ to make a good machine is there a factor shaper to glasser o sander to finisher that you have to calculate out?

I think I mentioned they were only labor times. UV is waaaay quicker if

you include the waiting.

I once shaped a board in the morning and glassed it in 1-1/2 hours.

The fin system and deck plug is what took the longest. I was still able

to surf the board by lunch time…

Paul

if you want to step it up heres five things I would consider although I do not profess to know how Firewire is configured to manage production but…

  1. First of all I’d pre-build out all my balsa deck and bottom skins and set them aside

  2. Second I’d start prepping a bunch of prepreg glass/epoxy lams rollups and freeze them for use later

  3. Third I build out 1/4" balsa rail band sheets to cut entire rails bands out of later

  4. I’d build a rocker table outline jig to make it easier attach the rails bands to your shape

  5. I’d get a multi rack hot box/oven to post cure my comp sands

With all these five things set up ahead of time

you can concentrate on just the custom shaping part of the operation after the initial hot wire cuts

You’ll need to make a bunch of peelply or release so you can glass the the top and bottom prepreg laminations at the same time.

Most snowboard, skateboard, composite airplane and ski factories utilize prepreg lamination coating machines to reduce waste and achieve the best glass resin saturation. Most are using curing ovens as well when dealing with epoxy laminations. RDM infusion is used by some of the larger manufacturers in place of prepreg laminates. There’s a poor mans way to achieve some of this automation as well.

With a little prep time and work you could stage yourself to pop your compsands out in a similar timeframes as a PU glassed with poly or UV.

As far as efficiency though

I actually know lots of people who run every aspect of their lives off microsoft project.

When everything you do is a planned and scheduled project in microsoft project on your work and home computer and handheld life can get pretty spooky.

Alot of officers in the military tend to do this especially brigade commanders and naval captains. I’m sure PlusOne’s NASA friends were doing the same.

But if you want to get efficient in production work you have to truly understand the impact of scheduling in all phases of anything that impacts what you are doing. Once you plot that out and more importantly control it, then you have the opportunity to achieve some form of efficiency in what you’re doing.

But then fate has a nasty tendancy to slap your in the face with the unexpected/unplanned to test you.

i dont think 2 hours is acheivable in composite boards though

5 or 6 maybe

prolly firewire id say 4 and some

i cant see it being that profitable really

even with those sort of times

you still gotta sell them

id rather produce something that sells itself(for making money that is)

thats why my main money is middle market 50 year old jewellery designs

boring boring boring

ive tried to push the envelope in eveything i do

and after a while the only real pleasure

is the pleasure of streamlining and fast production times

so i can go surfing more

just dont want to do that shit on wages though

i can make a simple wedding ring in ten minutes

faster and cheaper than the casters and cnc s etc

better product too

inevatbly, on wages ill drag that out as long as possible these days maybe and hour if unsupervized

in fact ive seen jewellers take hours to do stuff that takes me 20 minutes

i found the better i get the less money i make

so theres not much incentive to improve producton times

unless im on contract

in reality

id like to spend work hours in research and developement

i want to be creative and make high qaulity jewellery with contemporary designs

works of art and stone carvings

musical instruments

and the best surfboard possible

just no money in it

bumma

i think ill get a bus and go on a hippy endless surfing winter

selling surfboards and funky jewellery out the back of it

that could be the answer!!!

Aloha! Sounds to me like people are getting tired of waiting, and talking about it, and have changed the subject to the quick production time of U.V. polyester resin. I would guess that anyone that can afford to buy one of the things from what is another corporate operation can afford to wait for one. In the meantime, it seems like there has been so much information about making compsands that it would encourage people to make their own. Besides, with a glut of P.U. foam everywhere now, the crisis has abated and everyone should find it easier to get something to ride and just go surfing. I’m wondering if brother Bert is longing for the quiet times of W.A., if he’s not already back there. Aloha…RH

I haven’t bought one, but I’ve ridden a couple. The ones I rode went really good.

I’m utterly stoked with mine…

Yeah, but I’m biased - because I made them!!!

Speedy


Hey Speedy,

Awesome looking boards! I like the round tail one. 'Couple of questions, so firewire is also available in Australia? I thought Nev would be for shortboards and Bert’s would be for longboards in Australia, then Firewire for North America? That’s cool that three companies are all utilizing Bert’s concepts. He and you must be very busy. I thought you worked for Bert, but I guess you work for Firewire now? Or is it all kind of one big family?

Cheers,

Rio

Hey speedneedle,

nice loking boards man, good to see this coming together.

I dont know much about epoxy; only done a few in colaboration with Martin Littlewood “DELTA” in Margaret River saw a lot of Burts early stuf in the west. I was reading a post in general discussion “Theory: is added tail width faster” and a guy from NZ Silly made (post #70 ) the following quote,


paulownia skins would be the cheapest but there a bit heavier than balsa

but the water resistant factor is big plus

balsa sucks water and goes soft if dings or pinholes are left unatended for longer than a few minutes

also it developes a black mold, and its engrain is like a drinking straw.

if you ding balsa, its exit stage left.

i use it because it is cheap and light

other wise i would use corecell,cedar,fir or paulownia


Ive seen the mould on some salomons before, not noticed it on any of Burts but was hoping you might explain what this is about and how to avoid it?

thanks Nik…

Just got the latest TIME mag… had a double page article “SURFINGS NEW WAVE” featuring various construction including Firewire…good salesman that Mark Price

Quote:

Hey Speedy,

Awesome looking boards! I like the round tail one. 'Couple of questions, so firewire is also available in Australia? I thought Nev would be for shortboards and Bert’s would be for longboards in Australia, then Firewire for North America? That’s cool that three companies are all utilizing Bert’s concepts. He and you must be very busy. I thought you worked for Bert, but I guess you work for Firewire now? Or is it all kind of one big family?

Cheers,

Rio

There’s lots of new stuff coming in from all different directions. The race is on.

Hey Epac,

How’s it going? Yeah there’s so much stuff going on right now that its quite interesting to see what’s really going to last and what will be “new” paradigms of surfing. I was just curious to about how that whole dynamic between Bert, Nev, & Firewire work. I originally thought ( I don’t know why) that Firewire was going to be more for north america and the other brands for other parts of the world. I guess I was wrong because Speedy’s making some awesome looking firewires.

Cheers,

Rio

So these boards seem to have concave decks, as Bert recommands, whereas on other photos of Firewires they just look like normal shapes with normal dimensions as on the website. Do you find any added qualities with the concave deck compared to the production boards?

Josh

do you know how much the big 6’8" Alternator will handle as far as weight?

Be nice if the Firewire website could be updated to indicate the weight range and performance range of each style like they do at Merrick’s site or others. Even Surftech and Global just updated their websites.

Seems to be the trend to help users understand what these boards are designed for. The fin guys have been doing this for a long time now.


Epac I agree there’s alot of stuff coming down the line…

This Nano resin stuff from Oceanit is going off the richtor here since the front page article. They are on the morning news, public radio etc etc all pushing fo some investors I guess and to promote Hawaii as the next Nano-Valley especially with the big nano conference coming to town. Be interesting if Fiberglass Hawaii volunteers some RandD dollars to come up with a new product.

I see the Marketing wars are about to kick in with the buzz Firewire is trying to generate. GSI, Burton, and the others aren’t going to stand by and watch the upstart steal their thunder. Just watch.


The siginificant rising cost of oil if we step into a dance with both Iran and North Korea at the same time will put some pressure on the petrol-dependant recreation industry. The anticipated Birdflu pandemic will also have a significant impact (state/fed imposed quarranteens(sp?)) to anything done out doors. National and local planning has already started over the past couple of years. Just finished my emergency evaluation this week (how important to the economy am I if this happens)


Industry Sidenote.

Also there’s something in the air I don’t think anyone has seen what’s going to have an impact in an almost underground way…

And that’s going to be widely available cheap consumer access to APS3000/CNC machine cutting services for the homebuilder. Guys like CarveNalu are going to be on every block pretty soon. I’m checking it out as well as others who have discovered the capabilities of the APS3000 software.

And when the cost of a 90% completed shaped shortboard drops to $50-$75 or less or if Marko get’s the technology to the point where they can mold an EPS blank designed by a computer program on demand kind of how the APS3000 can cut them out, the idea of a cheap design-your-own kit built surfboards using UV resin or UV cured Epoxy with Heat/UV curing ovens will be the one anomoly in this outreach that no one sees coming their way.

Ever heard of “pottery barn” or “build a bear” stores?

Believe me, someone is going to figure this out pretty soon and a build your own custom board in a day store is going to be put in a some mall and franchises will start popping up everywhere (Actually Greg Loehr predicted this in a story he wrote here years ago). Board designs will be catalogued, stored and shared (just like online music/movies) for easy reproduction/alterations just like you could do today at a scanning service if you are a professional. The pieces are ou there alrready and the cost of the technology is dropping exponentially. Prepreg/heat activated laminates, computer printed marge format graphics, CNC machine cut cores and robotic builds. Just look at what happened with the film development outlets once the technology was priced right. 24 dry cleaners are a better model with a central cutter and access over the internet to place submit your design and graphis choice.

Surftech will not be needed and it’ll be the nightmare of every professional board maker out there. Intellectual property rights suits will soon follow but proof will be difficult without the capital of the movie or music industry.

It’s coming sooner than you think…

And guess who started all this…

Robert August with…

http://www.surfboardsbyyou.cjb.net/

The there’s CMP

http://surfgear.cc/glass-your-board.html

In the Northwest…

http://www.perfectwave.com/shaping.html

And now the impact of the APS3000:

http://www.ewaliko.com/psnw.html

http://foam.akubird.com/

http://home.comcast.net/~scottshine/pro.html

http://www.surfboardkits.com

The ultimate Just-in-Time delivery solution to inventory management and the fuel costs of shipping containers of product across the oceans…

Just an observation but it’s coming…

Josh

do you know how much the big 6’8" Alternator will handle as far as weight?

Be nice if the Firewire website could be updated to indicate the weight range and performance range of each style like they do at Merrick’s site or others. Even Surftech and Global just updated their websites.

Seems to be the trend to help users understand what these boards are designed for. The fin guys have been doing this for a long time now.


Epac I agree there’s alot of stuff coming down the line…

This Nano resin stuff from Oceanit is going off the richtor here since the front page article. They are on the morning news, public radio etc etc all pushing fo some investors I guess and to promote Hawaii as the next Nano-Valley especially with the big nano conference coming to town. Be interesting if Fiberglass Hawaii volunteers some RandD dollars to come up with a new product.

I see the Marketing wars are about to kick in with the buzz Firewire is trying to generate. GSI, Burton, and the others aren’t going to stand by and watch the upstart steal their thunder. Just watch.


The siginificant rising cost of oil if we step into a dance with both Iran and North Korea at the same time will put some pressure on the petrol-dependant recreation industry. The anticipated Birdflu pandemic will also have a significant impact (state/fed imposed quarranteens(sp?)) to anything done out doors. National and local planning has already started over the past couple of years. Just finished my emergency evaluation this week (how important to the economy am I if this happens)


Industry Sidenote.

Also there’s something in the air I don’t think anyone has seen what’s going to have an impact in an almost underground way…

And that’s going to be widely available cheap consumer access to APS3000/CNC machine cutting services for the homebuilder. Guys like CarveNalu are going to be on every block pretty soon. I’m checking it out as well as others who have discovered the capabilities of the APS3000 software.

And when the cost of a 90% completed shaped shortboard drops to $50-$75 or less or if Marko get’s the technology to the point where they can mold an EPS blank designed by a computer program on demand kind of how the APS3000 can cut them out, the idea of a cheap design-your-own kit built surfboards using UV resin or UV cured Epoxy with Heat/UV curing ovens will be the one anomoly in this outreach that no one sees coming their way.

Ever heard of “pottery barn” or “build a bear” stores?

Believe me, someone is going to figure this out pretty soon and a build your own custom board in a day store is going to be put in a some mall and franchises will start popping up everywhere (Actually Greg Loehr predicted this in a story he wrote here years ago). Board designs will be catalogued, stored and shared (just like online music/movies) for easy reproduction/alterations just like you could do today at a scanning service if you are a professional. The pieces are ou there alrready and the cost of the technology is dropping exponentially. Prepreg/heat activated laminates, computer printed marge format graphics, CNC machine cut cores and robotic builds. Just look at what happened with the film development outlets once the technology was priced right. 24 dry cleaners are a better model with a central cutter and access over the internet to place submit your design and graphis choice.

Surftech will not be needed and it’ll be the nightmare of every professional board maker out there. Intellectual property rights suits will soon follow but proof will be difficult without the capital of the movie or music industry.

It’s coming sooner than you think…

And guess who started all this…

Robert August with…

http://www.surfboardsbyyou.cjb.net/

The there’s CMP

http://surfgear.cc/glass-your-board.html

In the Northwest…

http://www.perfectwave.com/shaping.html

And now the impact of the APS3000:

http://www.ewaliko.com/psnw.html

http://foam.akubird.com/

http://home.comcast.net/~scottshine/pro.html

http://www.surfboardkits.com

The ultimate Just-in-Time delivery solution to inventory management and the fuel costs of shipping containers of product across the oceans…

Just an observation but it’s coming…

Quote:
Ever heard of "pottery barn" or "build a bear" stores?

Go up to the kiosk on the beach, swipe your credit card, input some dimensions and answer some questions on the touch screen and 15 minutes later you have your board.

It sounds crazy, but all the technology to do this exists. They have fiberglass reinforced thermoplastic sheet material. Heat up a sheet for each side of the board, vacuum form it to the blank, trim it, and seal the seam. Pops out the other side ready to surf.

Granted, there would be a lot of R&D time involved to get a machine that could produce a rideable board, but if there is a market, someone will do it.

Quote:
Quote:

Ever heard of “pottery barn” or “build a bear” stores?

Go up to the kiosk on the beach, swipe your credit card, input some dimensions and answer some questions on the touch screen and 15 minutes later you have your board.

It sounds crazy, but all the technology to do this exists. They have fiberglass reinforced thermoplastic sheet material. Heat up a sheet for each side of the board, vacuum form it to the blank, trim it, and seal the seam. Pops out the other side ready to surf.

Granted, there would be a lot of R&D time involved to get a machine that could produce a rideable board, but if there is a market, someone will do it.

First, that doesn’t sound crazy at all, as a prototyping concept. And for the very small fraction of surfers who are knowledgeable about board design, confident in their knowledge, and objective enough to translate that knowledge into design parameters without indulging in a lot of wishful thinking, it might work well. So, what are we talking about there in terms of market share, 5%? 2%? Less? For the vast majority of surfers who require at least some useful feedback (positive or negative) from someone in the marketing chain (be that a surf shop salesman or an experienced custom shaper), it seems like a terrible idea to me. Even if the process became cheap enough to make the financial impact of trashing a loser design trivial, what is the plan for all those mistakes? The material to which you refer doesn’t seem like an easy one to recycle.

-Samiam

Once someone decides to scan and catalog all the major designs on every website or “popular” board design forum out there and has no guilt in ripping those off and selling them for a profit globally it’ll happen.

It’s happening now

except most of it’s happening offshore where the economics makes sense and the reprocussions are minimal.

imagine getting a flyer-clone based on the individual specs you entered into a computer program and with new robotics to build it. Like KenZ said these machines are out there today doing this stuff for all kinds of industries. Conceptionally none of this couldn’t be done today if the money was right.

The first baby step towards this is the growing abilty it get your own designs cnc’d at a reasonable fee without having to be a pro. I can envision that the blank outlets(especially the EPS ones) will evolve into full service offerings to include the machine shaping service and full scale lam printing service as part of the whole deal since the computer equipment/expertise is similar and there’s benefits in the economies of scale to get the best payback on the investment. These places are starting to pop up everywhere with the demise of clark and they’ll lead to the next generation of service offering. Which will be these instant or almost instant board stores/kiosks at major malls near the beach or major tourist surfspots.

Imagine this (a paraphrase of greg’s story) before you head off to your favorite surf destination you log in to the local board service and order up a board of you liking you could probably do this along wiht making your travel reservations. When you arrive at your destination your personal guide has your custom board already to go for your “surf vacation” if you don’t like the way ot handles you can “punch up” another design to have delivered to you within 24 hours. When you’re ready to head home you just recycle your board for a credit that you can apply for future purchases or for other travel needs. No need to worry about taking your own equipment any more to the majority of vacation surf areas. The airlines are happy the traveler is happy the taxi cab driver is happy as are all the people waiting in line at the airports. This is just one scenerio but one that could be a picture of the future as the sport expands throughout general society.

The hardest part of boardbuilding is the exact crafting of a good design and that’s slowly going away with the active use of computer programs and shaping machines, glassing was the second stumbling block, but composite sandwich construction and vacuum forming under heat is eliminating the issues of the craftsman knowledge in those fields as well. Simple laser driven measuring devices will keep the accurracy of the final output within military specs. Graphics are being replaced with large format color printers onto the lam material itself.

Its the whole centralization decentralization cycle all over again. Right now the economics favor centralized production but the lessons that those manufacturing techniques and the vastly improved technology will cause the cycle to revert back to decentralized manufacturing and distribution until something causes it to revert back again. Look at the whole initial FedEx phenomena and then the rise of decentralized local inventory warehouses managed by Fedex to improve product delivery time even more.

If the cores are EPS like in Greg’s story (wish I could find it again) you’d just recycle the damn thing. Maybe they’d offer a recycling credit like the do plastic and glass containers for your old board.

I may be wrong but as long we the growth and interest in this sport continues without the correction Greg’s predicting, this will be the natural evolution of the continued commercializing of the industry. There’s alot of stuff going on around that showing us glimpses of the future… Collectables? Wallhangers? Popouts? Offshore Factories? The ever growing family of backyard builders? the Success of Sways? it all must mean something as a whole… Some folks see it most don’t… or at least refuse too…

And it isn’t crazy as a means of production. At least not to with a certain surfboard manufacturer in Asia. It’s basically a pop-out. The only difference is the machine is 100% automated.

Ideally, the computer in the machine wouldn’t allow enough customization by the user to produce a bad board. It would be more like ordering a meal at McDonald’s, just touch the pictures on the screen, enter your weight, etc.

By the way, I’m not encouraging anyone to do this (and it’s highly unlikely anyone ever will), so no need to get into environmental issues. The point is that it’s possible.

I agree with everything oneula says. It’s all possible and could happen. But I don’t think anyone in the biz needs to worry anytime soon. Look how long it took for people in the surfboard business to even consider epoxy. And I know they all have their reasons which are largely based on the market, so I’m not mad at them. Maybe this time it won’t take 20 years to adopt the new technology (can we even say that epoxy has been adopted at this point?). Maybe it’ll be shortened to 10 years. Lots of time to start thinking about getting a shaping machine, or at least start using one.

the problems is this in a nutshell…

Technology gets better and cheaper making anything it eventually replaces less efficient and more expensive.

Expensive in the long run leads to obsolesence with the exception of collectables and elitism.

Sotheby’s is the auction house of yesteryear

eBay is todays version

People die and People forget

the next generation always has a different take on things pushing it to next extreme

it’s happening everywhere

it’s gonna happen here sooner or later

we only can pray we’re all dead by then if that’s how we feel

the ones that take our place in all honesty probably won’t give a damn anyway.

with the invasiveness of tech in all parts of our lives and need for a new “buzz” I have a weird feeling I’m gonna see some of this happening before I leave