FIREWIRE sets the record straight.

Industry Talk
1

There has been considerable comment lately about the evolving epoxy market. Some of the discussions have centered around the state of surfboard technology, where the market is going and from time to time, fairly specific commentary about Firewire surfboards. In some cases these comments have come from people associated with our Brand.

For the record, we believe our boards are great and all claims as to performance and durability are legit. We are proud of the creative team we have assembled and as you know when the talk turns to surfboards, a tremendous amount of passion is involved. That being said, while everyone is entitled to his or her opinion, sometimes in the absence of any official word, those opinions could be misconstrued as the Company’s position as well.

For the record, we believe the surfboard market is a multi faceted organism and nobody truly knows where it’s headed. If looking at other product categories is any indication, the market will thrive on the creativity driven by the core participants. There is plenty of room to accommodate a variety of approaches to surfboard design AND construction.

Over time, we believe that FIREWIRE will prove itself every bit as worthy of our place in the line up as today’s premium surfboard brands. We do have a lot to prove but we are up to the task.

Sincerely,

Mark Price

FIREWIRE USA.

2

“For the record, we believe our boards are great and all claims as to performance and durability are legit.”

And, “some comments” have come from your people…

How in the heck does that clarify anything? Couldn’t get much more vague.

Who’s opinion is being misconstrued? Where, here? By whom?

About what?

This is a surfboard design forum, with lots of smart and interested people. If you want to set the “record(?)” straight, how about some actual facts?

Sincerely,

Us

3

HI Keith,

We’ve noticed some disparaging remarks about PU that could have been associated with our company. Our goal was to comment on the inherent diversity of the surfboard market and to acknowledge that despite the degree on interest in what we’re doing, we oursleves recognize the accomplishments of those who have gone before us, and the task ahead in order to take our place in the line up. The intent was to show a degee of humility and recognition of the accomplishments of others.

My apologies if that was not stated clearly enough.

Sincerely,

ME. (meant tongue in cheek)

4

cool . . . thanks for the update . . .

Is this post to dispel any type of negative comments in regards to surfboard construction outside of the type Bert has done? Or some the posts that Greg L might have made?

Maybe to get past the “See I told you so!!” / overly self righteous sentiment that may have been spawned since the fall of Clark (but I am not saying that Bert, Greg, or anyone in your company or nev, etc. et al. . . has said)?

I think some here are waiting until a board hits the stores and then surf it to see what its all about. It’s been hyped up here for years. And also in surfermag. Hyped up not in a showbiz, negative sense, but hyped up in statements made but not backed up or proven to the majority of the audience those statements are directed at.

Case in point, to say Kleenex is the most recognized when it comes to nose or hand wipes. It even becomes the noun for nose / hand wipes. “Hey she’s crying, pass the kleenex.” Even though the brand of nose wipe may not be kleenex, it is called as such.

Greg L made some huge comments behind his epoxy, but in using his epoxy, most find it to be a superior product to what is currently out there. But that’s only because people can use them.

There’s a fine line between believing in your product and over hyping it . . . I’m from the school is if something is really good, if people like it, your customer service is on point, it’ll sell and you’ll have loyal customers. Look at the business model Harbour surfboards has. They will always have customers.

Since only a few have ridden Bert’s style of boards, and even fewer have commented on it, a lot here cannot verify.

But I guess the answer is a few months away.

In regards to the direction of surfboard building . . . yeah I can see why you’re saying that. A couple posts by members associated with your company have alluded that the technology Bert / Greg was bringing to the table was going to make all other boards obsolete.

But in realizing that surfers are a diverse bunch and well . . . shoot you have people riding everything. Even Bob Simmon’s boards or hotcurls are being ridden . . . Good call on answering that one . . . Looking at the current state of the surfboard building . . . lots of foam blowers are trying to get a good pu blank going . . . its not the death of pu . . . or longboarding* for that matter.

The next part you have to cover is the Asian manufacturing gig. That is easily found in another post . . . I’m not going to say right or wrong about that, that is covered in the Firewire made in Asia thread. That could have been easily smoothed over months ago when Bert / Greg began to think about expanding and when Clark shut down … .

Maybe explained to the forums the nature of the business, reasons why (please stock holders etc . . .) why and hows of the Asian manufacturing first . . . not having surfers following find out via trade publications etc . . .

But answering after fact only helps feed the “dude, sell out” mentality that has taken over the Firewire made in Asia thread, because it sounds like an excuse. The Asian manufacturing is a hot topic amongst surfers . . . so its not like it was one of those sneaky off the horizon, not in sensory range issues that came up.

But I supposed if you tell the whole truth, and nothing but the truth behind that . . . maybe that’ll help lessen the damage.

And the final thing . . . I noticed the boards in the 2005 Huntington contest that Bert was showing is different than the . Firewire brand (Saw one up close at the fish fry from southcoast booth) . Bert’s boards at the Huntington contest had a balsa skin. The Firewire boards have balsa stringers and regular glassing . . . Or is the balsa skin board a custom option?

Oh also on the site, it would help to have a skill / weight chart for board size choice of which model etc . . . because I know what my board sizes / dims / volumes should be, but that is coming from a pu background or hand shaped epoxy / eps background. As I recall from one of Bert’s posts was that using pu / pe mentality won’t work with his boards . . . adjustments must be made . . .

Since Firewire’s konstruction is different than hand pu / pe or eps / epoxy . . . that would help people out. You know someone could buy the wrong size and not like the board . . . and tell each and everyone of their surfer friends how bad it rode . . .

There are certain shapers boards I’ll stay away from because trusted friends had told me about them.

Another thing is what fin systems are being offered? Southcoast tends to be FCS oriented. . . or will it be a custom fin system?

*there’s a post in the general discussion.

5

Hi Mark - Could you give us your description of custom, and ultra custom? Thanks for coming on w/ this thread.

thanks

6
Quote:
We've noticed some disparaging remarks about PU that could have been associated with our company.

Let’s see… you must mean the remarks made repeatedly by the brains/talent behind your boards (Bert and Greg)? And I assume this “setting the record straight” means that the suits (investors) have come in and hired a marketing guy to put a pretty face on the company and control what statements are made so as not to piss off the powers that be in the surf industry?

I assume the suits have decided that the official position of Firewire (or whatever you call your company this week) is no longer that the traditional surfboard industry is doomed and shapers/glassers will all be cutting lawns any day now. Thank god.

7

Having mowed lawns (and worse) during rather desperate periods of unemployment, I took particular offense at some of the comments made even though the remarks weren’t directed at me…

Not that I have a problem with lawn mowing. It was honest enough work and I was outside breathing fresh air and enjoying the sunshine. Moving from job site to job site wasn’t too bad… I reckon it beat flying a desk for 8 hours a day. I think it was more in the way it was meant… degrading, demeaning or whatever.

Some of my friends have degrees in landscape design and horticulture. Yeah, they mow lawns once in awhile too. It’s their bread and butter between big installation jobs. Some of them surf.

Lots of really good Californian surfers have gardening operations and like it just fine.

There can be a great deal of freedom owning your own small business and having some flexibility to surf when it’s good.

I guess Bert could have made a better choice when he was demonstrating the fine art of public relations. Little did he realize that a lawn mowing surfer might have been a future customer.

whats new from you polyester guys??

i wish you guys would just snap out of it and wake up …

when every last bit of logic has been over ruled , you turn to an emotional comment and still find a way to justify your ignorance ???

because right now every epoxy board builder on the planet is kicking arse with the performance of there boards , making stuff so light and strong it makes POOPEE look ridiculous and abiding by enviromental standards …

mow my lawn o yea .

mow , mow ,mow your lawn …

all i can say to that is MOW MY LAWN …

and then after that you can MOW MY LAWN AGAIN !!!

MOW MY LAWN , hm i might get a shirt with that printed on …

regards

BERT

8

thats funny though john :slight_smile:

i hate mowing lawns

i had to do it for a week in periodic detention for old ladies

for an unpaid jaywalking fine

9

Aloha Mark

How ya doing these days? Man, I haven’t seen you in a zillion years, maybe since way back when you were riding my boards here in Hawaii.

I just wanted to welcome you to Swaylocks…

I see that you are already seeing how fun it can be! Ha!

Hang in there it will get better.

10

Mark – thanks for the explanation via PM. It’s nice to know that custom doesn’t involve the machine, ghosties, and will have the shaper’s signature on it. Who is going to be shaping your boards?

11

That doesn’t sound consistent with what I heard… i.e. shapers working on CNC’d blanks now… it would be nice to keep the facts separate between what is, and what is planned…?

12

I am assuming you are back peddling about Nev Hymans comments to SIMA where he publicly swore off polyurethane foam ?

I read a comment Bert had made in 2004 someone quoted in the other firewire thread , I cant help but get this feeling that corporate bullies and people with the money making claims they own it , is exactly what has taken place .

Then as I read this subject , the whole thing starts to look very plastic .

As far as I heard , Bert only teamed up with Nev less than a year ago .

If its the same Bert I’ve always known , then He’s pretty good at putting 2 and 2 together .

I used to stay with him when I went down the coast , if you went surfing with Bert you could guarantee after weighing up all the variables , that you would get the best waves possible that day without having to waste a tank of petrol like when He wasn’t with us .

When I see these boards , I see the same boards Bert has been doing for along time , only they have been rebranded , repackaged and now have better looking colors , the comments made about the construction and technical information seem very average in comparison to the conversations I’ve had with him in the past .

Now that I’m reading more information on this site Bert has written , I can see He has gotten it even more refined than when i last saw him .

I’m a bit confused as to exactly who in this business you are trying to distance yourself from ?

I am completely sold , I think Bert , Nev and this Greg person have got it right , I will never go back to a conventional board .

Are the opinions of these people in your business to extreme for the market ?

It looks like the mainstream image is the safe route , that means all the visionarys and forward thinkers need to be removed from the picture for fear of upsetting the majority opinion .

Why not set the record really straight ?

Matt

 <span style="color:Black"><span style="font-size:6px"><img src="http://img.timeinc.net/twbiz/images/spacer.gif" alt="" class="bb-image" /></span></span>     <span style="color:Black"><span style="font-size:6px"><img src="http://img.timeinc.net/twbiz/images/spacer.gif" alt="" class="bb-image" /></span></span> <a href="http://www.twsbiz.com/twbiz/gohuge/0,21245,1064449-79-0,00.html" class="bb-url"><span style="color:Black"><span style="font-size:6px"><img src="http://img.timeinc.net/twbiz/content/images/06/lifeclark/firetwo_300.jpg" alt="" class="bb-image" /></span></span></a><span style="color:Black"><span style="font-size:6px">

Photo by Liam Ferguson Firewire Founder Nev Hyman

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Surfboards go parabolic – and early reviews are glowing.

Firewire U.S. President Mark Price.

FEATURES

Nev Hyman Launches Firewire Surfboards

By Sean O’Brien

Posted 05.09.2006

When Australian shaper Nev Hyman stood up at the SIMA Board Builders forum this past January and publicly swore off polyurethane blanks, you knew something was up. After all, Nev has been mowing PU foam for 35 years.

But in the weeks that followed, the full scope of his announcement slowly became clear. His new company, Firewire Surfboards, had tongues wagging up and down the Gold Coast during the Quiksilver Pro, where a who’s who list of top ASP talent were freesurfing the new vacuum-formed blanks.

Then there’s the talent pool that coalesced around the shapes. Shareholders in the new company include a roster of heavy hitters: former Billabong International CEO Matthew Perrin, former Billabong GM Dougall Walker, and Firewire’s newest shareholder, Mark Price, will head up the company’s U.S. operations.

After Price saw the boards in the Trestles parking lot in January, he knew he had to get involved: “Once they started pulling the boards out of the car, my whole attitude changed from, ‘Hey, maybe I can help these guys a bit and pick up a free board’ to ‘This is what I would consider a disruptive technology.’”

So what’s the hoopla? “I don’t think the actual production process is revolutionary—vacuum forming has been around for a long time,” says Price. “However, the exact chemical compositions we’re using in the blanks and epoxy resins is creating a surfboard that has incredible and rapid flex memory as well as durability and lightness. It’s a magic combination. The closest I can equate it to is riding a snowboard where the flex actually improves your turning radius and acceleration out of turns as the equipment snaps back to its original rocker. These boards create a burst of speed coming out of turns that I don’t get off my regular surfboards.”

Firewire will use a two-tier approach to hit both the custom market and the more mass-produced stock business. “If you want a 6’2” by 18 1/2” by 2 3/8” fishtail, you can get it,” says Price. “The mass customization aspect of it is huge—especially when added to the performance characteristics plus the graphic potential.”

Firewire boards will feature digitally outputted graphics. “Anything a human mind can create when coupled with a computer can be cheaply applied to the surfboard,” says Price, who notes the boards are relatively eco-friendly. “The fumes released during production are ten times less than traditional foam blanks.”

"For the U.S. custom and stock market, Price says factories will be set up in San Diego and Burleigh Heads, Australia. In the short term, to meet expected demand, both factories’ capacity will be delivered to the U.S. market. “Our number-one priority is to address the needs for the U.S., and its important that we don’t over extend ourselves in the short term,” says Price.

With the backing of the shareholders—especially the deep pockets of Perrin—it’s likely Firewire will have resources most start-ups could never dream of. But will such an experienced management team be content with just surfboards? “The immediate goal is to establish a premium high-performance surfboard brand,” says Price. “Of course we’ve had open-ended discussion about what some logical product extensions may be, but it’s so premature to take those seriously until we accomplished the first task.”

The first Firewire boards should trickle into the market this summer. “We’ll roll out at ASR in September with a pretty significant piece of real estate on the show floor and go after it really hard come Spring ’07,” says Price.

13
Quote:

I cant help but get this feeling that corporate bullies and people with the money making claims they own it , is exactly what has taken place . The more things change the more they stay the same. Surftech, Boardworks, Global surf industries, Quick, Billibonk, Volcon, etc. and now Firewire. All were/are the latest greatest biggest badest and all had enough money or backing to convince the masses. Get rid of whatever your riding, the new is about to replace the old. Nothing new under the sun.

When Australian shaper Nev Hyman stood up at the SIMA Board Builders forum this past January and publicly swore off polyurethane blanks, you knew something was up. After all, Nev has been mowing PU foam for 35 years. The hype begins… a major shaper makes a bold statement

But in the weeks that followed, the full scope of his announcement slowly became clear. His new company, Firewire Surfboards, had tongues wagging up and down the Gold Coast during the Quiksilver Pro, where a who’s who list of top ASP talent were freesurfing the new vacuum-formed blanks. A who’s who list of top ASP un named talent were freesurfing the new vacume blanks. Probably given to them. The equipment has been validated to the surfing public and the sales pitch is ready.

It’s a magic combination. Pitching # 1 The closest I can equate it to is riding a snowboard where the flex actually improves your turning radius and acceleration out of turns as the equipment snaps back to its original rocker. Pitching #2 These boards create a burst of speed coming out of turns that I don’t get off my regular surfboards.” Pitching #3 and indirect dig at current shaper.

Firewire will use a two-tier approach to hit both the custom market and the more mass-produced stock business. “If you want a 6’2” by 18 1/2” by 2 3/8” fishtail, you can get it,” says Price. “The mass customization aspect of it is huge—especially when added to the performance characteristics plus the graphic potential.” Pitching #4 with a nice bit of hype added for effect. Get on board quick or you may be left behind.

With the backing of the shareholders—especially the deep pockets of Perrin—it’s likely Firewire will have resources most start-ups could never dream of. Which means the person (who ever they are) that deserves the real credit will not get it. Nor will they get a major bit of the money and since shareholders are involved, you can bet your bank account that the original vision (whatever that was or is) will not come true or be seriously compromised. But will such an experienced management team be content with just surfboards? “The immediate goal is to establish a premium high-performance surfboard brand,” says Price. Here is the set up and the hype…we really don’t intend to sell out and do gobs of other products, but the plans are in the works now and hopefully one of the majors will offer us millions sometime soon. If not…we always intended on only being a premium high performance surfboard brand. No retro allowed. “Of course we’ve had open-ended discussion about what some logical product extensions may be, but it’s so premature to take those seriously until we accomplished the first task.” The pitch has been made, but until they see how the surfboards do in the market, they are not willing to cough up any more dough. The first task being…can we get them into department store surf shops or even better…Sams etc.

Hi Mark…I barely regonized you with those glasses.

14

Yup, the past months have showed really interesting examples concerning marketing:

Harbour always denied epoxy construction - now his website explains the advantages of this construction.

Nev “swore off” polyurethane foam? - honny soit qui mal y pense.

Rusty dislikes the backyard builders ? Now he´s offering all sorts of “alternative construction”, refined by backyarders (see swaylocks) and lateral thinkers like Bert.

Funny, do they (or the marketing guys who write the ads) really think that the customers are stupid enough to believe in this? Maybe they are…

15

What they are saying could very well be true…then again…maybe not. My point is there are many shapers and craftmen out there who are ahead of the majority in epoxy tech. Both in the core used, the additives and the rest. As usual someone with bucks comes to the public making claims and promising to keep it core. Those that forged the path with epoxy and other past advances rarely get the credit or the money and many times…the tech used for mass production is not superior to whats being done out there…but inferior.

I realize we live in a capitalistic society, but I wish the snake oil salesmen were not taken so seriously. Were you to go to a trade show ten years ago and then go today…it’s the same retreds attempting to run things in surfing and try and create the fantasy of “the surf industry” which is always about the next latest greatest.

They always want to make bold statements about killing the old tech, or design, or look and bringing in the new…with them leading the way of course and taking the credit for things they usually stole from someone else.

Ooooh Nev said it…Ooooh some cool un named pros were drooling over it. Sounds familiar doesn’t it?

The one thing we can count on and at times it a good thing, is the surfing public does not stay on things very long. Only the beginers or the pros getting the stuff for free or being paid. Eventually people end up on what “they themselves” simply like. Superior tech…or not.

Also: Epoxy is better in some ways, but it’s not at this stage of the game…the end all of surfboard design. I appreciate Bert’s designs…I think Forstall and guys like Ricky Carroll are ahead of most of the pack with regards to epoxy…but they don’t come from California or Australia so it does not count in the eyes of the magazine snake preachers.

In the end:

The earth’s pulse keeps on pumping and giving us waves to ride, those that love it for what it is will continue to ride those waves on whatever surfboard that appeals to them on a personal level … the white noise of the surf industry will always be there on dry land where it belongs with the other chest thumping monkeys trying to harass them into changing paths. The bottom line has always been and forever shall be… the waves… the wind blowing over our shoulders … the ocean’s life pulsing around us …those glances at the sunsets as we paddle over a set… the friends we share it with…the life filling energy that saves us from life in an industrial world. Few things on earth are better … few are further from the things of money…few things on earth compare to the flightless flight of surfing.

The rest simply clouds up the water.

16
Quote:
Harbour always denied epoxy construction - now his website explains the advantages of this construction.

I’ve read all his posts on both this forum and his own website over the last few years and to be more accurate, Harbour was not pleased with the results of the light weight eps foam available in the past, as glassed by supposed specialists. Some may have loved the 1#eps boards being hyped by shapers and epoxy marketer alike, but in Harbour’s tests, the boards dented, delamed, etc. But he continued testing, before and after Clark’s closing, and now that heavier weight eps became more available, has come up with a combination of foam density and glassing schedule that meets his standards.

17

And Rich is not hyping it like the second coming. Instead he is doing his homework trying to deal with the situation he finds himself. More power to him. There is some great poly foam out there right now as well…better than clark.

18

“Thanks for the PM”???

So, Mark Price making a content-free blurb posting in the forum, and then responding to requests for specific follow-up answers only by PM (raising suspicions that answers may be spun to the biases of the specific questioner, or be available to only a chosen few) constitutes “setting the record straight”? In my universe that is called “damage control PR”, nothing more. If you really want to “set the record straight”, Mark, please post your answers for all of us to read.

-Samiam

19

…this one’s just for you , John !

…I also have an even “better” one , but there are minors online …

[I’ll ‘p.m.’ you that one , if you like ?]

 ben

20
Quote:

…this one’s just for you , John !

…I also have an even “better” one , but there are minors online …

[I’ll ‘p.m.’ you that one , if you like ?]

Does the “better one” show the guy mowing and raking simultaneously ;?>

-Samiam

 ben</blockquote></div>