I’ve been lurking for a bit, following the ARCTIC FOAM Vs… thread and I wanted you guys to post up your personal preferences regarding foam, and how it’s supplied. I learned a lot from searching, but it seems that there’s something annoying about every blank supplier, whether the foam’s too hard/soft/not white enough, the service sucks, foam is off color, or the selection isn’t right.
EDIT OK, lemme change my tune. I’m a urethane chemist who knows that many if not all of these blank makers don’t formulate their own juice, which to me is like a logical fallacy. I was curious to see if there would be any interest in a supplier who can make very responsive, custom, adjustments to their foam. A smaller guy who will work harder to get you exactly what you want.
That may very well be true, but without an actual finalized formula for the foam itself let alone a product, a business through which to sell it or the market analysis required to substantiate the product, I am skeptical about being able to assign a business value to what is so far literary vaporware. I’ve been around for a while and have seen more than a few comers promising the latest and greatest to revolutionize whatever product in whatever industry but very few follow through on the promises. Not saying you won’t or can’t but merely stating that a lot of techno-jargon can be summed up in a few photos of prototype foam. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.
Shapers the world over are on a constant search for the magic foam just like riders search for the magic board. Forgive the skepticism, but understand that many have heard it all before. Perhaps a little more product offense and a little less statement defense may help make the case and satisfy the naysayers. If I’m wrong and you have the magic foam, I’d be more than happy to admit it and be happy for the advancement of the science.
Prevent UV generated disturbances of electron distribution in unsaturated organic polymers, especially unconjugated molecules.
1. UV absorption must be coupled with energy dissipation.
2. Block or reflect UV radiation.
How many ways can these be accomplished? How does ordinary automobile or house glass block UV radiation without organic molecules?
The ultimate surfboard foam? Hard, stiff, soft, white, easy to shape -- vague and subjective. Shaper or surfer determined?
We must know the physical properties of the ultimate surfboard foam to manufacture and test it. What are those specifications? Modulus of rupture, shear strength, minimum compressive strength, maximum tensile strength, density, uniformity, porosity, water absorption ...
Surfboard strength and flex are affected by length and thickness. Will all boards use the same foam?
Stringers:
The longer the board, the greater the flex and the easier it is to snap. The stringer has always served an important structural function as an I-beam.
Dual density -- the surfboard. A fiber reinforced solid polymer layer over a softer and lighter foam polymer core.
OK, you've got my attention. Something that I disliked about CLARK blanks, was that the deeper into the blank you shaped, the softer the foam got. The opposite was true of WALKER foam. It had a soft outer crust of about 1/8th inch, and the deeper you shaped into the blank the tougher It got. A uniform skin to core density, or a variation of density like the WALKER foam would sure interest me, and I believe many other shapers too.
This is an art and I have mastered it. You must reduce the exotherm of the reaction and keep everything else constant. In the industry, what you speak of is called “scorching”. It leads to softening and depending on the iso used discoloration.
You will always have some sort of hardness(density) gradient with PU foam, BUT, it can be improved greatly with a good formulation/process.
I think I know what the Walker guys did, and I garantee it wasn’t on purpose: strange crystalline fragmented skin, with uniform harder core?
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...how hard was Walker compared to ARCTIC?
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It's been some time since I've shaped a WALKER blank. I have done a few ARCTIC, and liked the feel of them. They cut clean, without tearing, even with full throat passes. They had a ''crispness'' about them. Seems like the ARCTIC blank is a little harder.
It’s interesting that most guys I actually speak with say they like the harder foam, whereas the impression I get from reading threads is that opinions are somewhat split. Hmm.
I’ve got a couple recipes that I’m tweeking. I’m glad they are all pure white and pumice stone hard.
What about a biobased (soy) blank? Most of the guys up here in the NW are super stoked about such an idea, but I wonder what the guys down south think. The community in general exudes an environmentalist stance, but would it really affect board choice?
For me it comes down to coast and availability more than anything. I can get better foam than what I am using but I have to buy it in quantities that don’t make good financial sense. If I had a nearby supplier for TecCell or Surfblanks I’d use them for everything.
Hard foam for me also. I don't do production so the extra time and effort don't affect me. Walker was my choice of foam years ago. Want to try Arctic but haven't yet. A supplier that wouldn't mind the small orders as well as for the factories would be cool. Also a manufacturer that will allow custom rockers or be able to make changes in "stock" or natural rockers. I don't care about stringer choice because I do my own. One more thing, I like THICK blanks not just for SUP's.
Would going completely stringerless be a problem? Because I’m thinking they’re an uneeded artifact. If you have a burley foam, why would you need a stringer, but purely for tradition?
I’m also working on a flexible system that would work like a snowboard.
Biobased foam… I’ve only had bad experiences with it.
Stringers… stiffen structure and add snap resistance, hold rocker in place for hand lams. Gotta be careful of three stringer blanks though. the worst twists I’ve ever seen have been on three sticks where the guys gluing up the blank haven’t payed attention to grain direction.
I shaped/glassed my first stringerless PU blank a few weeks ago, mainly just to see what it was like. It was a US Blanks RED density 5’10 RP with a 1" colored foam stringer:
When I dropped it onto the rack, it literally bounced off–I’m not even kidding.
Also, here’s a video of me planing the rail bands–watch for the flex in the tail (not my technique, please!) This is after I learned not to push hard on the blank haha.
So I decided to glass it 6, 6/6 with epoxy because I was afraid of stress cracks due to all the flex. When I came back the next day, the rocker was noticeably altered due to the board sitting upside down on the rack and the resin curing in that position. It’s not terribly obvious, but having seen it before and after, I definitely noticed it. Really it just flattened it and it’s a Simmons sooooo yeah I meant for it to happen.
By the way the 1" foam stringer is standard density and, from what I noticed, kind of soft compared to the rest of the blank. It also seemed to tear a little bit easier.
I’m not knocking US Blanks in any way, just expressing what I learned from the experience.
Sounds like your asking for a dream wish list. So If I was dreaming why not soft on the outside hard in the middle. The perfect blank, easy to skin, no tearing as you plane down the thickness, then nice hard core for finish screening and durability.
But if thats not possible then hard for sure. Softer is so much easier to shape but the harder aussie style of foam makes for a better core.
Stringerless? Your going to have a hard time with that one. Your going to have to come up with something truely revolutionary to sell that one. Even how the board rides, even if it were better, is still going to have to “feel” like it has a stringer. Surfers are a tricky, mis-informed, odd group of consumers.
And Bio foam. Just saying those two words makes me cringe. Heat intolerance, discoloration, etc. Those before you have really paved the way with a short list of disasters. Sorry but you’d be better off just saying foam for surfboards and leave it at that. Maybe post a video of 2 bio blanks, one glassed with epoxy the other with poly sitting inside a hot car in the middle of the summer. The last batch I did all came back looking bad and wrinkled, never again.
OK I get it. Thanks for the vid. That foam was flexing like a seat cushion though. I guess at the very least the super long boards would absolutely require a some sort of added rigid structure.
I also formulate coatings and I think I have a winner in that regard as well, at least in comparison to what I’ve seen you guys work with. And I was amazed that shapers weren’t already using such a system. The raw materials are super expensive, but looking at what they charge you guys for your resins I think I’d be just fine. Blows epoxy out of the water, sets up quicker (but not too quick), and is completely UV stable.
