Foam. How do you like it?

General Discussion
21

I love how it’s known as “aussie foam”. Uniform hardness is attainable, soft on the outside harder under the skin is a bit trickier, but I’m pretty sure I know what Walker did, and it was more related to the process than the formulation.

I guess I just need to get some super hard stringerless blanks out there. What I really wanna do is actually use a more flexible foam with some sort of carbon fiber structure for a snappy flexible board. I wish carbon fiber wasn’t still so expensive.

All this talk of disappointing biofoam has got me excited. The bar is very low it seems. And all PU/EPS foam will yellow in the sun because it’s all made with aromatic iso’s/monomer. I guess you could add some UV stabilizers, but I don’t know how much it would help. You must have had an extreme situation, or just some extremely shitty foam.

 

22

is this comedy hour?

 

  yes it must be

 

 

** cheers huie
**

 

23

If it is its a pathetic attempt.  Most of these people have no idea what goes into making a good blank, and why.

24

It’s true

25

Guys, play nice

26

[quote="$1"]   ...last batch I did all came back looking bad and wrinkled...   [/quote]

Last time I was in the sun too long, the same thing happened to me!

27

I’m sure it seems pretty funny and noobish. Please forgive me, unless you really are getting a good laugh, then you’re welcome.

28

Like I said in the pm I sent you;  If you think you can do this or even surpass the quality of Aussie, American and other foammakers;  step up to the plate.  I'll steer you onto the molds .

29

[quote=“$1”]

Yeah this is a real violation of privacy. It’s just a screen shot of my inbox. I show no PM content, only enough to brand MCDing a liar. Because he was lying to the whole forum. He’s also claiming that he gave me his phone #, which is beyond strange.

Why are you even reading this thread much less bothering to post if I’m such an idiot?

30

Isn’t this something that you would actually want to keep the weight as low as possible? Kind of a multidensity blank (by purpose or accident?)

 

31

[quote="$1"]

[quote="$1"]

OK, you've got my attention.    Something that I disliked about CLARK blanks, was that the deeper into the blank you shaped, the softer the foam got.

[/quote]

Isn't this something that you would actually want to keep the weight as low as possible? Kind of a multidensity blank (by purpose or accident?)

 

[/quote]

Haavard,

Lighter does not always mean softer.     Lighter foam can also be harder than other foams of the same weight.

32

Having a urethane chemist chime in on Sways is refreshing.

Huie wll stir the pot as usual, Bill T. will give you genuine insightful and thoughtful information from decades of experience, and everyone else will make it a circus or worthy thread purely by chance.

I have to be a little skeptical with the statement that you have “mastered” foam formulating. It would be great if this is truly the case, but from my tenure I would have to ask you to qualify yourself far above and beyond merely stating the fact that you are a urethane chemist.

That being said, I’d rather shift gears and kick in the positive receptors rather than be a Doubting Thomas. Cautious skepticism has merit, but closed eyes and ears are like those monkeys that see, hear and speak no… uh, nothing. Makes for a good picture though.

The Walker foam was subscribed to by many shapers. It had a sugary feel to it, and for that reason, some airbrushers loathed it while others claimed they had no problem getting crisp defined lines with it. I still have some of the “Mowses” foam that Walker availed to “Ice 9” while they were still in business. I liked the foam, but didn’t ever think of it as ‘the ultimate’.

I will back up NJ and others that have had disappointing experiences using MDI based foams. I don’t have any confidence in Methyl Phenyl Di Isocynate based foam whether it is based with Soy or Cane. The TDI has gotten bad raps from people on Sway’s that didn’t know what they were talking about while thinking they were offering a ‘green foam’. Look up my older thread TDI vs MDI the shit hits the fan. During that thread I had PM’s from a chemist familiar with the subject matter and he fully supported my statements regarding TDI (Toluene…). I supplied information from the American Cancer Society  in tha thread as well providing the list of likely known substances to cause cancer, and what it would entail to do so. There is a lot of bantering and postulating in that thread, but there is also some worthwhile information.

There is a LOT of misinformation on Swaylocks. So I hope that someone such as yourself, that is EDUCATED in the subject matter, can answer questions in an unbiased forthright manner that laymen can actually comprehend. From your response as to whether this thread is a “joke”, your reply was what I hoped it would be.

It’s ridiculous for someone on this thread to call “hard foam” Aussie based foam. What a load of hooey. There have been SO many different attempts at foam formulations from different global locations that I find that myopic and self serving as a statement. Since you have no affiliation to one company or another, I’m hopeful this thread will serve to educate while entertain the possibilities of what can be, what is unlikely, and some that are downright impossible.

At the end of the day, good foam is good foam.

Now, what does that mean?

33

yea right

so what happened to ice nine?

mybe if they would have bought into the c d d duell density just mybe?

you tell me this guy can ride in here like a knight in shiny armour and cure all your ills

your encouraging him to blow some dough  haaaa’’

 

 

  cheers huie

34

 

Can you give us any additional info about the coating?  How does it outperform epoxy?

I prefer uniform hardness/density, but I am a backyard guy…I can afford the extra shaping time.   

 

35

I’m not sure what “dual density” means in this conversation. Can somebody tell a nobody what that means?

I don’t think uniform density is necessarily a good thing. I think if you can blow a blank with a hard, dense crust that you can foil from the bottom, and have a super light core with just that hard, durable deck, that’s good… reduces overall weight and adds some longevity. So, in that respect, what’s wrong with the typical currently available foam with a hard crust and soft interior?

To get back to the OP… good deck rockers that require only skinning, straight stringers, crispy foam that shapes fast and clean, no twists… at a good price. That’s what I like in ploly. In EPS it’s tightly and uniformly fused foam with good rockers, etc. Again, not necessarily uniform density. Just really tightly fused so the foam does not breathe and uniformly fused so you don’t get tearouts in one spot and cutting in another in the same pass.

36

[quote=“$1”]

[quote=“$1”]

[quote=“$1”]

 

 

Great sounds awesome. Good luck with that.

that was in answer to dead shaper not you

 

 

I don’t know

what about supplying foam to the surf industry   good luck with that

 

If anyone’s trolling it’s you. And you said yourself that “ice 9 was interested” but they went under, so how do I have no idea what I’m talking about in this regard, when I’m directly quoting you.

37

[quote=“$1”]

I’m not sure what “dual density” means in this conversation. Can somebody tell a nobody what that means?

the answer was to dead shaper   not you.

if someone makes remarks about me i am entitled to reply   that was my reply to d s

**
**

now i am sure this is comedy hour

**
**

 cheers huie

38

Huie… I respect you. Believe me when I say, I don’t know what you’re talking about. Seriously. I am the “nobody” I’m referring to. I thought dual density means higher density foam on the rails (or some other strategic place?) than the rest of the core. Are you talking about higher density foam on the surface? LIke a surftech? It it two different foams bonded together, or the same materials but different densities manufactured as one blank with a density gradient? I shaped a few Ice9 blanks so I’m trying to understand what you’re hinting at.

Comedy hour, no. Amateur hour, maybe.

39

Huie has placed a lot of emphasis on dual density for over the last few years. He has NEVER really elaborated on it on Swaylocks to the best of my knowledge. He mentioned the concept to myself, Surfding, and some other members but I don’t think, to the best of my recollection, ever hearing anything of great substance after that.

NJ or someone asked what is the concept that he speaks so highly of? He doesn’t make that clear. Has he ever? It becomes a bit tedious and disinteresting when someone, anyone, shows up in a forum speaking as though they have found the Holy Grail, but you aren’t allowed to know anything about it , much less see it.

For me, gradient hardness of foam has been the norm for as long as I can remember. I thought it was more a result of the production process involved in blowing foam in concrete, and later, aluminium molds than an engineered goal. I also believed that the early day llghter densities were detemined by the amount of material created the fix polyurethane cells. It seemed reasonable to assume that the lighter the blank, the less material was used in constructing those cells meaning a thinner cell wall that would crush easier. Fixed cells crush, beads have more memory and can recover. This thinking was why EPS became interesting to me as early as 1982.

Good EPS is still very attractive to me. I was told by an Aussie, that Europe and the U.S. have great EPS while OZ has crap. Maybe that has changed. I would think the increased use of IDRO processing would improve the availability of good Expandable Polystyrene.

As far as skins offering a dual density feature, skins, like the core beneath them, manage energy in their own respective manners. The new variable that becomes critically important is the interaction of skin and core, how each handle energy (load bearing) and recovery. Even the adhesive and methodology used to create a bond between the materials used becomes critically important. Chemical bond? Mechanical bond? Both?

Huie poo poohs the idea that someone with a different perspective might approach core issues with a fresh and revealing perspective.

 I don’t.

I’ve learned long ago that to continue progressing as a shaper/designer that I can find ideas and inspiration from sometimes remote sources.  I also found it important to park my ego at the door and become a dry sponge so I can soak up fresh ideas.

Somebody that is right all the time doesn’t learn sh-t.

40

I’m a hobby guy.  I like foam blanks with straight stringers, lots of choices in terms of rocker, length, and width.  I don’t like voids.  Hard, dense ‘globs’ of foam in the middle of the foam piss me off.  I like polyurethane. EPS does not give me the same pleasure as PU.    I like good service and people that stand behind their product and don’t make excuses or blame the user.  Distribution is very important to me.  I don’t want to pay more for shipping than  the cost of foam. I like to look and feel what I’m buying.Mike