So I tried my hand at staining the blank with resin and opaque pigment prior to lamination. I like being able to take my time with UV resin and I like the idea of not using paint thinking there is a better bond . I stained the blank blue using pe uv resin with catalyst using a roller. But when I did the lam the resin kept running off the rails leaving dry spots. Chased it as well as I could and it came out ok with just a few silvery spots on the deckside of the rails. Is this just an issue that is bound to happen or did I overdo the ammounts of resin on the blank? or was this an issue using cheap cloth (warplite was a dollar cheaper per yard from surfsource)?
Ok… I did let it cure before laminating. But if I lay the cloth on while the resin is still wet does it have the potential to bleed?
Not an expert by any means, and I’ve never done a foam stain, but aren’t you supposed to put the fiberglass onto the resin while it is still wet?
that’s not happened to me before. you don’t need much resin for a foam stain, but I don’t think that would be the cause, the glass should wet out no matter what. Maybe the cloth was the problem… try next time with different fiberglass.
Ah---- The hit and miss of a technique developed here on Sways that pros stay away from. Got nothing to do with the "Warp" cloth.
I did a foam stain on the front half of a board recently I found it made laminating that half easyer cloth wet out faster with less resin no draining.
Any chance you used sanding resin by accident?
It shouldn’t have anything to do with the warp cloth since warp is known for wetting out easily and wrapping even easier. Warp just refers to the direction of the weave. Basically, there are more fibers length wise. See link for description;
http://www.fiberglasshawaii.com/fabrics/fabrics-cloth/fabrics-cloth8.html
Tommorth has a good guess as to what the issue could be. Another thought might be that since the surface you are laminating onto is hard, and smooth, so it’s easier to pull more resin out leaving dry spots? I’ve done a bunch of foam stains and never had this issue so I’m curious to hear the answer.
Thanks for the input. The flats wet out great, but During lamination i could see the resin draining off the rails. I think the issue was that I let the stain cure before I laminated. “Warplite” was the brand I bought- has a fighter jet on the label. Though it might be the issue because it was only about $3 a yard, and you so often get what you pay for.
I found references on another web page (“Florida Surfing Community”)
to this brand of glass … The posts below were from July 2009:
" This is your first board just get warplite. Its ok, i just find it dosen’t wet out as easy as jps or s-cloth"
“I also agree with you in the warplite glass. it is difficult to wet out.
I’ve a couple boards that I thought were wet but it had spots that
weren’t.”
Sounds to me that you aren’t the first person to have this problem with that particular brand… If I were you, next time I’d spend a few bucks more. A dollar a yard isn’t much of a savings if it means your board doesn’t turn out the way you want it.
Thanks for that info, Keith. Its always nice to be able to blame something other than myself.
Just for the record- is the process for a foam stain to lay the fiberglass while the pigmented resin is still wet?
Once again, like almost all threads here on Sway’s it user error and nothing to do with the materials. Could also appear dry because the finish on the cloth somehow got wet due to your poor handling.
that’s not the way I do it… pigmented and catalyzed resin thinly on foam; glass later after its cured… in the same way you might do a seal coat of epoxy over EPS.
if the industry pros can use cheap materials and never have a problem, more power to them. That helps make a buck, which they must do. But in my opinion when you’re learning there’s no sense having the additional handicap of cheap materials, or the wrong materials. (For example I’m sure a pro glasser could lam a board with super tight weave impact glass, but I wouldn’t recommend that a newbie try it…)
And if the “industry” doesn’t do foam stains… well they do lots of thing in different ways than the backyard/garage/hobby shapers and glassers. They have to make a profit… many people who make surfboards don’t… the industry has to cater to a certain market, produce a certain type of product… many people who make their own surfboards don’t…
SurfSource wouldn’t be selling fiberglass to surfboard builders that doesn’t work well. What sense or cents, is in that? Good materials make good boards if the technician knows how to use them, and inferior materials can make great boards in the hands of the rightly skilled craftsman. What provokes me to respond so abuptly, yet succinctly, is how quickly the neophyte blames materials when in actuality it’s the user everytime. As much as you think you know via the internet, experience is a great teacher.
Ghettorat, I don’t see anything of value that you added to this thread, or the other thread he posted.
Why don’t you just tell the guy how you do it instead of this? You know so much, but contribute so little helpful information. Always picking everyone part instead of starting with giving good help. If you did give out good input then they screw up, I’d say go ahead and tear um apart.
Everyone starts as beginners. Some are lucky enough to make it through and become skilled masters. All the good skilled masters I know always give out good advice. They may not show you personally how to do it, but they usually tell you a thing or two. Even if it’s encrypted like Huie or others I know, they give you something to chew on. It’s not like you’re inviting him over to show him how it’s done.
people sell inferior and substandard crap to other people every day of the week. Sometimes they may not even know it, but they do.
One of my very first boards was done with an abstract foam stain on the deck - within the laps, like an inlay. I mixed laminating resin and various pigments in separate containers added catalyst and all went well. I had a minimum of bleed under the tape in a spot or two but nothing major. I let it cure before laminating the cloth over it. I didn't do any scientific testing but it is quite possible that the resin stain 'primer' helped strengthen the foam a bit under the glass. I didn't have much of an issue with any denting on that board. Polyester laminating resin over cured laminating resin? No worries.
I have no experience with your specfic brand of cloth but have used some tight weaves. Most of the time if you flip your laps up on to the deck or bottom surface while wetting out, you will have a better chance of wetting them out thoroughly before tucking them under. It is often the case that laps left hanging will let resin just run off to the floor.
Some other methods to wet-out laps include using a brush or roller to wet out the blank under the cloth, using a brush or roller to wet out the cloth, and using your spread out fingers under the laps while wetting out to put the cloth in a horizontal plane. I've even considered using some sort of wide spatula-like thing to hold my laps horizontal while wetting-out. Does anybody else do this???
Last tip... use enough resin! There is a reason why most glassing racks in factories have mounds of resin piled up under them. They use a lot of resin and quite a bit gets wasted during each part of the process. It is not unusual for a home builder to try to spread too little resin too far. In the factory setting, I've seen glassers literally flood the board with resin while laminating and a lot ended up on the floor.
Unless your cloth has been water damaged, as ghettorat suggested, or perhaps has some sort of finish that is not polyester compatible (not likely), it is probably just a matter of technique. I don't think it had anything to do with the foam staining.
How can you tell if the glass is water damaged? I bought some cheap sh_t on ebay and I think I got burned. Worse case, I use it for a canoe, paddles, or fins. I could probably make a molded 3 man canoe shell with the amount I have.
Petey told me to fold up the laps onto the board then pour the resin over the laps to wet them out if you want to be conservative with the resin (using epoxy). Make sure you do a good job of cutting the laps to avoid strings.
I’m not so good at this technique, so I have a pair of sissors for cutting the strings off wet cloth. One hand under the lap is my favorite way.
Thanks for all the help for those of you kind enough to share your knowledge and experience. I am not in a rush to blame materials and I am quite aware that only after 6 boards I still have a lot to learn; thats why I am asking questions on this forum .
In this case I had a couple of stripes across the board done in a catalyzed and cured foam stain. The stripes drained out on the deck side rails fairly quickly while the clear foam stayed wet out. The flats wet out just fine. Granted i am still quite slow and there was time for the uv resin to drain and soak in, so I had a couple other small silvery spots that I just missed. I don’t think the cloth got wet only in those spots by coincidence although anything is possible.
Next time I will work quicker and use more resin. I will also buy more expensive cloth… Just in case it actually was the materials
You can tell that the finish on the glass is inappropriate, or water damaged when it doesn’t “wet” out. There are a multitude of finishes on clothes that make them work with surfboard resin systems. Sharky, how can I really tell what he did without even seeing a picture. Doing colors has its own set of challenges. Chinese, or Korean cloth sells a bit cheaper in the US market, and there are those who use them regularly and successfully. All the cloth manufacturers are a bit different, but if they are for surfboards, all will work. Dirty glass, usually oil spots pretty much only appear after the resin hits the glass, water damage looks like it never went clear.
Just the other day there was a dirty fiber about 6" inches long that I had to cut and pull out carefully with a razor blade before the poly set up; creates a bit of tension especially when your catalyzing a bit hot. No big deal it worked out and no one will know nor care, and I will not be paid more that I almost lost a board because I had to get out a bad fiber. Pretty much people only see mistakes in this industry, and if your doing a good job no one says anything- those are the facts, cut and dry. I hear it all the time one way or the other, so my critiques do have value, if one is trying to make a better board. Making surfboards often can be like putting lipstick on a pig.
I gave some cloth to llilibell but while rolling it out/measuring from the roll (outside of course) it rained a few drops. I tried to finish in a hurry but sure enough, he had a mysterious spot that wouldn't saturate when he was glassing (with epoxy, I believe.) I'm pretty sure now that the spot was caused by water affecting the finish of the cloth.
Sorry Jeff... At least I didn't send you any of that teflon coated release fabric!