FOAM VS. BALSA

General Discussion
1

BUDDY OF MINE BUILDS PERFORMANCE POWER BOATS AND WE WERE DISCUSSING THE USE OF CORE MATERIALS, THE PROS AND CONS, AND WE WERE CURIOUS THE OVERALL CONSENSUS AMOUNGST SURFERS ABOUT STRENGTH, RIGIDITY, HOW LONG VARIOUS CORE MATERIALS WILL LAST, AND SO ON.  SINCE SURFBOARD BUILDERS CAN SEE, FEEL, AND EXPERIENCE THE CORE MATERIAL IN A WAY THE BOATER CAN NEVER NOTICE (UNTIL OBVIOUS FAILURE), WE THOUGHT YOU WOULD HAVE SOME INSIGHT INTO VARIOUS CORES.  PLEASE RATE BELOW, ON A SCALE OF 1-10, YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH EACH CORE, IF YOU HAVE USED IT, OR WHAT YOU HAVE HEARD ABOUT FROM A RELIABLE SOURCE.

 

AIREX

BALSA

COOSA BOARD

CORECELL

DIVINYCELL

KLEGECELL

NOMEX

PLYWOOD (IF ANYONE EVEN USES THIS IN SURFING)

 

WOULD APPRECIATE WHATEVER YOU THINK ON THE ABOVE, AND COMMENTS ARE WELCOME.  HOPE YOU DON'T MIND ME ASKING ABOUT THIS.   

RJ

2

[quote="$1"]

BUDDY OF MINE BUILDS PERFORMANCE POWER BOATS AND WE WERE DISCUSSING THE USE OF CORE MATERIALS, THE PROS AND CONS, AND WE WERE CURIOUS THE OVERALL CONSENSUS AMOUNGST SURFERS ABOUT STRENGTH, RIGIDITY, HOW LONG VARIOUS CORE MATERIALS WILL LAST, AND SO ON.  SINCE SURFBOARD BUILDERS CAN SEE, FEEL, AND EXPERIENCE THE CORE MATERIAL IN A WAY THE BOATER CAN NEVER NOTICE (UNTIL OBVIOUS FAILURE), WE THOUGHT YOU WOULD HAVE SOME INSIGHT INTO VARIOUS CORES.  PLEASE RATE BELOW, ON A SCALE OF 1-10, YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH EACH CORE, IF YOU HAVE USED IT, OR WHAT YOU HAVE HEARD ABOUT FROM A RELIABLE SOURCE.

 

AIREX

BALSA

COOSA BOARD

CORECELL

DIVINYCELL

KLEGECELL

NOMEX

PLYWOOD (IF ANYONE EVEN USES THIS IN SURFING)

 

WOULD APPRECIATE WHATEVER YOU THINK ON THE ABOVE, AND COMMENTS ARE WELCOME.  HOPE YOU DON'T MIND ME ASKING ABOUT THIS.   

RJ

[/quote]

Don't mind you asking, but don't appreciate you shouting.  Better to get that caps lock problem taken care of, then post!  =)  Here's a loose translation, written in semi-readable form!

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A buddy of mine builds performance power boats, and he and I were discussing the use of core materials - the pros and cons.  And we were curious about the overall consensus among surfers re: strength, rigidity, longevity of materials, etc.  Since surfers experience the core material more intimately than a boater, we were interested in your insights.  On a scale of 1-10, how would you rate the following core materials, if you have used them or heard of them.

Airex

Balsa

Coosa Board

Corecell

Divinycell

Klegcell

Nomex

Plywood (if anyone uses this in surfboards)

3

sorry, didn't realize the surf community was so concerned about grammar.  maybe i will go to some composite forums instead.  thanks

 

rj

4

[quote="$1"] sorry, didn't realize the surf community was so concerned about grammar.  maybe i will go to some composite forums instead.  thanks

rj  [/quote]

Always helps to read the forum rules.

The rules of Swaylock's Discussion Forums are pretty simple.

The rules are:
1) No personal attacks.
2) Stick to the topics of the various forums.
3) Please NO advertising in The General Discussion.
4) Please keep things you want to sell, promote, advertise etc, in the classifieds or the Marketplace Forum.

Those are all the rules. Everything below simply plays to forum etiquette.

Some things will make you unpopular:
1) Spam
2) Repeatedly bumping your thread to the top of the list.
3) Repeating yourself.
4) Rudeness.
5) SHOUTING.

BTW, You're welcome for responding to and rewriting your post.  Don't let the screen door hitcha on the way out!

 

5

What rule did I violate?    

6
  1. SHOUTING

anyway i like paulownia fo a core

its a fast growing renewable material

its as close to balsas weight and stronger without the water issues and doesnt suck up so much resin

7

If someone is offended at capitalizing letters, they need to get a life.  It is obvious by the content, I was not shouting.  This is silly.  Always remember before panties get twisted, that 100 years from now, noone will give a crap and you will be worm food, so settle down. 

 

I'm done here if everyone on this board is like the prior people I have exchanged with.  What's next, we all have to say goodnight to one another or we violate another chat rule?  Or better yet, maybe we all need to promise that when we are typing, we don't have food in our mouths, after all, it is impolite to speak when eating. 

 

Thanks jerks.

 

rj      

8

Sorry about the bad experience Stream.  Some people, like you said, need to get a life.

To answer your original question.......If we are talking boat composites I'd stick with Divinycell or Klegcell.  I've taken enough mush balsa and plywood out of my Mako and other boats to last me a lifetime.

9

“Stop yelling at me!”

Sorry I couldn’t resist,it’s an inside joke from my workplace…your confusion is my laughter…oh yea,d-cell.

10

Hydrostream: It's all good. Welcome! If you want to talk about different materials I'm all ears and can share the little I know. I have vacuum bagged some of the new hybrid material and have end up with a combination of methods.
For the most part I depend on the standard layup with semi standard materials and still produce an affordable durable product. There are some simple basic materials that are cheap and work fantastic as long and you have your methods down.

I have made some boards with XPS/EPS Cores Skined in Innegra that have been in the water in good surf for 3 months and the deck is still new. Cool thing is the board is still light. Half was done in the bag and half hand layup.

I have a few beams of Balsa that I will play with and some billets of XPS for the core and some new high tech cloths to make it  fun. Any Ideals or leads on inovation bring them on.

As far as the Shouting (Typing in Capitol) Water off a ducks back!

Most of these guys are pretty funny jokesters so take it with a grain of salt.

 

Kind regards,

 

Surfding

11

if i write in all lower case, would that be whispering?

12

HEY HYDRO, DON’T WORRY ABOUT THE SHOUTING.  I’VE GOT SURFER’S EAR AND CAN’T HEAR WELL ANYWAYS.

 

I’VE WORKED A BIT IN BOAT BUILDING AND MAKE THE OCCASIONAL SURFBOARD.  I’VE DONE A FEW BOARDS WITH BALSA, BUT YOU CAN’T REALLY COMPARE WITH BOATBUILDING.  BOAT BUILDERS USE END GRAIN BALSA, WHICH IS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ANIMAL THAN THE WAY MOST COMPOSITE SURF BOARD BUILDERS ARE USING BALSA.

IN GENERAL I WOULD SAY BOAT BUILDERS ARE WAY AHEAD OF SURFBOARD BUILDERS.  ACTUALLY WE’D LOVE TO HAVE YOUR BUDDY HERE ON THE FORUM TO GET A BOAT BUILDER’S PERSPECTIVE ON THINGS…AT LEAST I WOULD.

13

Seems funny that someone who’s been on sways a month is telling a newbie the rules. Anyone tell Huie how to write?

I’ve only used divinycell once as a skin, and I’ve used plywood once. The divinycell and corecell seemed to suck up resin, and the plywood made the board quite a bit heavier than balsa. Both make strong skins though, but Balsa is so much more affordable than the divinycell ot corecell.

My brother uses divinycell and corecell as fin box support now but not as skins, I use balsa.

The guy to ask would be Gary Young. He’s been making composite surfboards for over a quarter century, and has tried all kinds of materials. He’s using high density cores and several layers of bamboo for the skins. He doesn’t glass over the skins, just over the rails. I think his boards are also very environmentally friendly.

CMP is also a great resource. He’s done a lot of work with Divinycell and those boards were hard enough to use as hammers. The boards he made for me don’t have any pressure dents.

14

Not sure if any of the insults or innuendo are directed my way - I did note the orig. post was all caps, so I explained why its better to use upper/lower case, as mentioned in Sway's introductory comments.  Didn't make a big deal about, and in fact took the time to re-write the comment in more readable upper/lower case.  Responding this way put the original question back up at the top of the page, so hydrosteam could get his answer. 

My exact words were: "Don't mind you asking, but don't appreciate you shouting.  Better to get that caps lock problem taken care of, then post!  =)"  The smiley means Hey, I'm joking with ya'.  I didn't expect any comments other than maybe "Heh heh heh, Oh, yeah, I missed that, thanks."

Instead, a few have gotten their undies in a knot, apparently sharing information or helping out with a post is limited to a specific group of which I don't belong. First the OP comes back with a snide comment about grammer and taking his things to go play with a different group.    Someone (other than me) explains that on the internet, typing in all caps is bad manners (actually, its harder to read, for me).  The op's reponse "thanks, Jerks"

Then he gets apologies for his "bad experience", with the agreement that some people need to "get a life", and finally a reference to an unspecified time period on the site required before someone could actually respond to or help out with a poster's questions.  Knowing now that all these delicate and unstated protocols exist, I will attempt to edit my original posts to minimize the harm to delicate eyes!

- aloha!

-----------------

edited to add: son of a gun, I can edit this post, but none of my earlier posts in this thread!  Looks like those delicate sensitivities are going to continue to be assaulted.  Sorry, I tried!

 

15

Hey Huckleberry

There’s an actuall scientific backing to CAPS vs lower case thing. Apparently when one reads a word, the brain recogises the entire word, as opposed to each individuall letter. Now we’re all used to reading in lower case where capital letters are only used to indicate either a beggining of a sentance, names etc. So when you see an all caps word…the brain takes longer to recognise the new “shape” of the word…and hence it is harder to read. Thats why in England all their road signs are lower case words starting with a capital. In Ireland only the irish names for places are written in lower case, the english translations are all upper case.

 

Oh…and i have absolutely no input on the materials…  : )

16

you asked a question on which rule you broke and i answered that it was shouting

i didnt judge you for it i simple mentioned what it was and continued to state my thoughts in paulownia as a core

then you break another rule with a personal attack calling me a jerk.

 

 

17
18

Hahahahahahahahaha!!!

Or should I say…

HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAA!!! 

Or…

Hahahahhahaaa!!

Or… For the real emphasis…

HAHAHAHAHAHAAHA!!!

**
**

I like foam.

19

Hey huie do you type with one finger?

20

THIS IS WHY PEOPLE THINK YOU'RE A JERK.  THE FOLLOWING ARE THE THINGS YOU STATED AND THEN, MY TAKE ON HOW THEY SQUARE WITH REALITY. 

1) ....DON'T APPRECIATE YOUR SHOUTING     (THIS COMMENT IS RIDICULOUS AND YOU KNOW IT.  IT IS OBVIOUS BY THE TENOR OF MY REQUEST, I WAS NOT SHOUTING.  THE RULE ABOUT NOT TYPING IN ALL CAPS WOULD MATTER IF SAY, WE WERE DEBATING HITLERS KINDNESS TO HUMANITY, OR ABORTION, BUT NOT CORE MATERIAL DISCUSSIONS.)

 

2)....HERE'S A LOOSE TRANSLATION, WRITTEN IN SEMI-READABLE FORM!    (AGAIN, RIDICULOUS, AS, I THINK, YOU KNOW THAT THE LETTERS ARE EASILY DECIPHERED BY ALL THOSE WHO CAN READ ENGLISH.  BY THE WAY, WHEN YOU USED THE EXCLAMATION MARK AFTER YOUR STATEMENT, ISN'T THAT SHOUTING?)

 

3)....ALWAYS HELPS TO READ THE FORUM RULES.    (AGAIN, MORE JERKISH BEHAVIOR)

 

4)....SOME THINGS WILL MAKE YOU UNPOPULAR.     (ANOTHER CLASSIC STATEMENT FROM HUCKLEBERRY, REGARDING MY SHOUTING MAKING ME UNPOPULAR.  DUDE, HOW ABOUT CALLING SOMEONE ON THE CARPET FOR TYPING IN CAPS?  DON'T YOU THINK PEOPLE WILL THINK YOU ARE A REAL TIGHTA$$ FOR THAT, ESPECIALLY WITH THE NEW GUY?  IT IS EQUIVALENT TO INVITING SOMEONE INTO YOUR HOME, AND YOU SMACK THEM IN THE FACE BECAUSE THEY ENTERED VIA THE WRONG DOOR, BUT THEY HAD NEVER BEEN TO YOUR HOUSE)

 

5)...NOT SURE IF ANY OF THE INSULTS OR INNUENDO ARE DIRECTED MY WAY.    (ANOTHER JERKY THING, OF COURSE YOU KNOW THEY ARE DIRECTED TOWARD YOU.  OWN UP TO IT AND ACCEPT YOU WERE ACTING LIKE A CLOWN)

 

6)....A FEW HAVE GOTTEN THEIR UNDIES IN A KNOT, APPARENTLY SHARING INFORMATION OR HELPING OUT WITH A POST IS LIMITED TO A SPECIFIC GROUP OF WHICH I DON'T BELONG.    (AGAIN, YOU ARE BEING FOOLISH.  THIS IS A CLASSIC EXAMPLE OF SETTING UP A STRAW MAN AND KNOCKING HIM DOWN.  YOU KNOW THAT YOU ARE NOW MAKING A PERSONAL INSULT, SOMETHING FOR WHICH YOU CRITICIZED ME (ACCURATELY), BY STATING "A FEW HAVE GOTTEN THEIR UNDIES IN A KNOT" AND BY IMPLYING THAT IT IS THE POSITION OF SOME THAT ONE MAY NOT HELP OUT UNLESS PART OF A SPECIFIC GROUP.  NO, THE REASON THEIR UNDIES ARE IN A KNOT, IS THE SAME REASON ANY RATIONAL PERSONS UNDIES WOULD BE IN A KNOT-BECAUSE OF YOUR ACTIONS!)

 

7)....A REFERENCE TO AN UNSPECIFIED TIME PERIOD ON THE SITE REQUIRED BEFORE SOMEONE COULD ACTUALLY RESPOND TO OR HELP OUT WITH A POSTER'S QUESTIONS.    (ONCE MORE, YOU ARE IMPLYING THAT YOU ARE BUT THE POOR VICTIM THAT EVERYONE IS BEING MEAN TO, BUT ALL THAT YOU REALLY WANTED TO DO WAS HELP.  THIS IS CLEARLY NOT THE CASE.  YOU WERE NOT SIMPLY TRYING TO HELP.  YOU WERE TRYING TO CORRECT GRAMMAR, ETIQUETTE, AND PUT THE NEW GUY IN HIS PLACE)

 

FINAL POINT, I BET YOU DO THIS IN ALL OF YOUR RELATIONSHIPS.  YOUR EGO FEELS MASSAGED AND EMBOLDENED BY TEACHING PEOPLE THE WAY THINGS NEED TO BE DONE.  I GUARANTEE  YOU HAVE VERY FEW FRIENDS, AND THEY ARE PRIMARILY THE PUSH-OVER TYPES OR THEY ACT EXACTLY LIKE YOU, ONLY YOU DON'T CORRECT ONE ANOTHER ON THESE SILLY THINGS.  

 

GROW UP.  YOU MUST WORK FOR THE GOVERNMENT OR YOU WENT TO THE NAVAL ACADEMY.  NOTHING AGAINST THESE ENTERPRISES IN THEIR ENTIRETY, BUT PEOPLE THAT MAKE CORRECTIONS OVER STUPID THINGS USUALLY EITHER ARE AFFILIATED WITH ONE OR THE OTHER. 

 

rj