futureshapes and RR in the news in Au

There’s and article about Futureshapes in the latest Australian SW. Some stuff in there about the boards and Bert and Nev and the major investors - some pro-golfers and ex Billabong guys - Dougal Walker and Mathew Perrin. One interesting part is that according to the article, they’ve bought Resin Research. Now SW have been known to be wrong in the past and it’s not entirely clear from the article who’s bought RR whether it’s Nev or the guys backing Nev but it’s probably of interest to RR devotees in the US.

The article mostly quotes Dougal Walker and occasionally Bert and states that their focus will be the US market and that they are setting up a production facility there to be headed by Reef’s Mark Price. Article states they’re working on better production methods.

So Bert’s act is really stepping up - interesting to see how Cobra reacts. Quik/Bong/Curl would also be pretty interested given that there are some high profile ex-surfwear marketing people involved.

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There’s and article about Futureshapes in the latest Australian SW. Some stuff in there about the boards and Bert and Nev and the major investors - some pro-golfers and ex Billabong guys. But the interesting part is that they’ve bought Resin Research. Now SW have been known to be wrong in the past and it’s not entirely clear from the article who’s bought RR whether it’s Nev or the guys backing Nev but probably of interest to RR devotees in the US.

Anyplace on the web that i can read about that?

interesting … . speedneedle has been dropping some info at that greg L / swaylocks epoxy glass shop thread in the general forum. Such as Greg’s involvement with Bert, different things, that Greg is on a mission of importance and a glass shop isn’t part of that, even will slow him down. It starts making sense with the information from Pinhead.

But its rumors, and until they are verified, will be as such.

RR is part of all this and it is a very high powered group. I will garrantee you that this group has the ability to change many things about the equipment we ride. Keep a close watch on this group and you’ll be seeing what I mean.

RR remains a US owned corperation as of today but we are partners with the group and the projects at hand. Not mentioned here is the US factory which is in the process of setting up right now so not everything will be coming from OZ. There will be a factory in SD building custom Future Shapes (Bert’s tech) for all of us on this side of the Pacific. That’s right, for all of you who have complained that you couldn’t get one of Bert’s beauties, you’ll be able to order them within a couple months.

Get ready folks … this is going to be shocking …

whoa. thanks for the verification.

Thanks for the update Greg.

I wonder how people like Merrick and Webber are going to react? KS and TJ chose not to ride their compsands at the Quik pro. But if they bust them out for Newcastle or Bells. What will their shapers do? Will Merrick and Webber get on board with Future Shapes?

Will Bert and Nev take them through the compsand design learning curve, so these guys can claim to be master compsand designers?

I’m not disrespecting Merrick or Webber - They’re both great shapers, but do they deserve to carry that mantle into the compsand world when they’ve been dragged there by their team riders?

I’m betting that right now someone like Sabs could shape a better compsand than any of the big name PU/PE shapers.

I’ll throw another name in to the mix…just a guess…

But he’s hinted for a while and hey; the guy knows his stuff.

Wouldn’t be the the least bit surprised if silent US side advisor is none other than Lib-Tech founder Mike Olsen.

Story gets better; Who bought Lib-Tech about five or six years back?

Starts with the letter Q…

figured I’ll throw that in while the unsubstantiated rumours churn…

Oh yeah; Mike has a forest of his own personal trees that will make balsa look like clark foam ;).

it’s a good match if it’s true

some guys in the surf biz have mentioned their support of how Q is run i,e, still low key although now public

Good biz move

looking forward instead of

getting stuck in the present

sounds like Q.

I’d do it just to compete with BB’s US Foam project just to stick it to them.

Good stable to distribute them to, too

Hey Bert will that order I placed over a year ago transferrable to the San Diego operation?

If so I’m still game…

Best of luck guys.

I’m not sure why people are getting worried about what Merrick might do.

These approaches are not even going to hit the same markets.

You’re going to have your 20+ yr old tech from Merrick, Rusty, and Lost. They’re going to import it, eat the domestic market alive, and sell imported Pu/Pe boards all over for $300.

At the same time there will be Nev, selling boards more expensive than today’s Pu/Pe domestic boards (maybe under $1000 - maybe), that will be lighter, stronger, and have optimized flex. Possibly with guys on the pro tour in support.

I don’t think there are many who doubt where the bulk of the market will be…the cheap boards will win that, easy. At least short term.

The battle will be for the high end surfer. Someone who wants the best. Will they buy Merricks, or Future Shapes? My suspicion is that if a few pro tour guys ride Bert/Nev’s boards, there will be a sizeable market for them, but it will in no way threaten the bottom line at Channel Islands in the short term.

To get the high end to listen, though, they will need top pros on compsands, at least a couple.

I think the question becomes who do you actually ride for?

the way it’s going…

if you’re Kelly, do you ride for Al or do you ride for Q?

and in the end is Al just an employee of Q, one of their “stable shapers” if you are sponsered by them?

I see it heading that way looking at what Bong and Q have been doing lately with their acquisitions.

It’s the Pepsi Coke wars in a different world…

In the end as with everything it’s all about money

not regualr money but “Beeg Money”

Once the conglomerate is built the then Begg shark(NIKE?) comes in and swallows it all up…

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To get the high end to listen, though, they will need top pros on compsands, at least a couple.

Or, the boards will need to be very unique & beautiful. I know dozens of people like me who would buy something because its extraordinary. I honestly couldn’t tell you what brand any of the “top 40” surfers ride, and likely won’t ever care. I could probably tell you what 4 or 5 pro longboarders ride. I would never make a decision on what to buy based on who else rides it, unless he’s a friend who I’ve surfed with. And I’ve always been like that - not just since I started making my own - and most of the people I know are too.

Board selection goes about like this - shape, craftsmanship, size, friend’s recommendataion, feel under my arm, symmetry, intended waves, appearance, price, brand. Price & brand are definitely last and whether a pro rides it isn’t even considered.

Am I just out of touch, or do others feel this way?

Agree

I think if you have had enough water up your nose and experienced enough salt water enemas…

you kind of just know its right when you see and feel it (and I stress the feel part)

go through hundreds of boards in your experience and you’ll start to develop “the eye” and a range you tend to like.

Hey but we’re the “nerd” crowd remember, we’re a bit more aware of what’s under our feet than those that just want the lastest Slats and Irons model. I can’t believe the number of shortboarders I know jonesing for a JS because he’s the hot guy now. Just like Tokoro, just like all the Stretch cr*p you see everyone copying since the article.

But being a nerd/contrarian I perfer looking at stuff no ones wants.

It’s the utimate “I live in the waterman” challenge…

pick the worlds ugliest and junkest board and make the lineup realize that sometimes…

it isn’t neccessarily the equipment that matters.

Seen it happen all the time with some talented friends…

Remember Curren schooling Matt Hoy with his 70’s Rick twin in a pro contest.

A factory in “SD” - do you mean South Dakota? San Diego?

If San Diego, why here?

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A factory in "SD" - do you mean South Dakota? San Diego?

If San Diego, why here?

Lemme hazard a guess.

  1. put it in SoCal where all the US surfers are

  2. put it in SoCal where lots of US shapers are, and where you would be most likely to be able to lure them to the Bert side.

  3. put it in SoCal so the employees can be active in the local surfing scene

Not to mention the potential for cheap illegal immigrant labor!

I don’t think these guys don’t need Q - Perrin and Walker have $100 m fortunes. Perrin was recently involved in Maquarie bank’s bid to buy the london stock exhange! He’s a serious investor and “Blank Monday” has created an investment oppurtunity.

As far as the surfboard market goes - Surftech has proved people are willing to pay more for durability and good looks. Projects like S-core and Aviso have added performance to durability and good looks- the thing that’s been missing is the pros. Now Future Shapes have pro’s riding them. If they can make them look great as well, they’ve got the whole package. Crew are saying they cost too much to build - the market will be too small etc - but the people involved in production Nev, Bert, Speedneedle (GL now it seems) are all very innovative. They’ll keep at process innovation till construction costs come down. The history of industry is full of examples of this happening - between 1880 and 1889 the light bulb fell in price by 80% due to a series of small production innovations.

Can’t wait to see what happens next.

I still honestly think that the biggest problem with the compsand is the production time. It obvious that he spends alot of time on each board. I’m gald to here he’s ramping up for production, but if he’s modifying his production I hope it’s not at the expense of quality. I’m sure it would still be better then anything out there(right now), but how much would a Bert Burger custom shape be? If he really cared about the future of surfing, he would keep his own label entact and say screw the other shapers who have sheep for the last decade. I don’t think Bert will need the reputation of these shapers to move his products. I’m interested to know what kind of deal Nev and Sunova has, will this be a model for future business realtions? I’m all for a better board but I hope there is more variety in the future(like buying other sporting goods, hockey sticks, tennis rackets, snowboards, ect.) There are so many options with composite building it should be this way. All I’m saying is I hope there is not another monopilization of our sport, if the big money shapers jump on board, what kind of future can an aspiring shaper expect? I’m disliking this trend of licensing technology… just my two cents…

If I’m not mistaken, enough time has passed that the name of the boards have changed three times, but not enough time has passed for regular surfers to actually see or surf the boards.

What does “a couple of months” translate to these days?

Options? Name changes? Waiting times?

Based off of what Speed (speedneedle)'s been saying apparently this technology of Berts is worth patenting and potential to bring a revolution similar to the three fin surfboard taking the surf world by storm or foam (and also Bert, Greg have been saying) here and in surfermag. If you combo off the patent sways post, the issues with patents is you must disclose your design to public knowledge.

I’m wondering if the Bert tech is a combination of stuff that’s been passed along various aerospace / naval / mil / knowledge and combined in the right order to build a surfboard. You don’t use same exact technique for a yacht to build a surfboard. Sort of how racing moto gp bikes are built vs nascar racers, they use the same tech, but the way they are built, the methodolgies, and given the construction technique and end performance differences (two wheels vs four wheels, differences in rider set up, like a moto the rider’s body position can lean into turns, and his ergonomics and aerodynamics vs a car etc) between aerospace and surfing . . . if you took same techniques to build a space needle (that aurora mach 6 reentry passenger aerospace plane) you’d crank out dog (low performance) boards. Anyways, back to the patent thing:

Given the high level of intelligence based in sways, it will not take long for sways members to quickly dicipher this knowledge and we all can have Bert tech from our own homes. So possible a big part of this set up is to seal information leaks and cracks. When you get bigger, the key information your employees have gets passed around . . .

Make no mistake, that well over half of errors of Microsoft product is when disgruntled Ex employees passing along key code to hacker groups . . . Of course they aren’t going to admit it, but that happens. The amazing rate of cat and mouse with updates and security loop holes or cracks/serials and copyright / registration is both partly the skill of hackers and coders and due to code being released.

Not only that, is production can be sped up if you throw money and manpower into that. United States found that out in World War II (they know about it before probably). Also you can cover heavy fees associated with ‘ramping up’, such as insurance, legal stuff, accounting.

Think about it. Bert has developed this tech. Imagine if he could R&D it further. A big company(ies) supporting you will help. Make no mistake, IBM cranks out nice microprocessors because they can toss $$ at it. AMD managed to score some tech that IBM used, and ran with their own talent . . . but now they are IBM level.

Not only that both Greg L and Bert have been shunned by surfing, the very people they wanted to help, were the ones fighting them. (If you played Starcraft for PC, they’d be like the dark protoss, helping their homeland while their own people shun and disown them).

Nev is good at marketing, and both Greg L and Bert have been calling out the demise of Clark. When the Demise of Clark came, they both knew the opportunity came. (disclaimer this analogy is no way debasing clark but to put a world view upon it) The Berlin wall had fallen a few years ago with EPS boards coming in. Now the Soviet Union’s glasnost (Clark warning us) suddenly became true as the Soviets regime came tumbling down. Clark had stepped out of the world arena.

Here’s where the name changes. See with marketing, it rides on trends. The surf industry trends are driven by magazines and sales to boys and girls, teenagers, and young men and women. They are as fickle. And so you have Nev, a master marketer . . . hence the name changes.

Options . . . the surf industry is loaded with options. Hence the strong desire for custom shapes and nearly everyone to support local shapers or go shaping their own. Everyone of here in swaylocks are a part of that, or else we wouldn’t be here.

The issues of options within composite sandwich tech is its very new in regards to surfboards. You won’t have options in a budding industry. Like when airplanes came out, you 1/2 HP engines, bicycle chain, cloth, and wood frames. No 10 HP ultralights, or 50 HP Cessnas to huge cammoflaged 8 engine bombers, to arrowhead steath computerized fighters . . . Not yet.

Tennis rackets, hockey sticks, ski poles / skis, snowboarding have well funded industries recognizable by world athletic associations, each commanding awesome sums of money. They have had R&D and the participants of those sports have grown used to the commercialisation (us commercialization). Surfing has been unusual in this respect. Look at the backlash against import / and attempts at commercialization of shaping. You even have two proponents, ‘soul’ surfers and ‘industry’ surfers. Look at how long it has taken for fins to be tested in hydro tunnels, or even double foil. Even getting people to open up to a switching from a different foam / resin. And even then, the pu/pe method is going to be around. It has taken a long time for big company money to be put into R&D of surfboards / fins etc. Even then big shots aren’t even moving (billabong still uses pu/pe tech) fast.

Still applications of ‘tech’ were often rehashed versions of tech tried earlier when such tech was not ready (like popouts in the 70’s, but in the 1990’s popout techniques had matured to the point where it could be marketed and sold to make a profit), and even today aren’t applied properly with large R&D budgets and teams. Like saloman boards (refer to the sways broken saloman thread) but marketing can overcome this stigma. Look at Randy French, its no mistaking his success on financial realm as Fortune magazine shines its lights up on him. But is it proper application? They are using a tried and true model of capitalism, pushing a popular, but lower quality product at cheaper price. Walmart does this.

While Hockey stars or tennis stars aren’t expected by their peers or by legends of the sport to be able to build or know key features of the methods of how their equipment is manufactured, or by their board repair, surfers are expected to know this (at least if you fall in the ‘soul’ category)

Remember that this is a new area. Setting up a surfboard company with performance and quality in mind, not sheer production and just cost savings. Also very open to new technologies and expansion so most surfers can benefit. Harbour surfboards has the same mentality, but yet Rich was going with tried and true pu/pe. But now even he is opening up and doing EPS / epoxy and he is going in another direction. Do not doubt, the passion Greg and Bert have for their technology and developments, and now they are building it up. Sure its going to take time. Rome wasn’t built in a day.

Also since Nev is having a heavy influence, he is using surf stars to present the goods, and maybe some refinements to adjust production while keeping some degree of quality, and a fair price.

And remember regular surfers has surfed Berts boards before, just not US surfers. Japanese and Austrailian surfers have. And they are the reasons for the long wait and long lines before. Just like if you went to a theme park and they had this super awesome ride but didn’t make you throwup or get dizzy, but it was just frickin’ awesome but they only had one, shoot there’d be line. As word of mouth spread . . . and people can see the ride from the parking lot . . . Not only that Bert does both longboards and shortboards . . .

Couple of months means two or three or four (official is two, couple going for for dinner is two right? TWin fin). I’m thinking its going to several, like 6 mo to a year. I’ll ride and judge for myself.

Perrin and Walker have $100 m fortunes. Perrin was recently involved in Maquarie bank’s bid to buy the london stock exhange! He’s a serious investor and “Blank Monday” has created an investment oppurtunity.

i was told that maquarie bank are large stakeholders in fcs too… who bought and own future fins as well.

please show some pics of kelly/taj riding these boards if anyone has some…

The real problem will be surftech, not Merrick.

If I were Randy French, I would get one of Bert’s boards, and have top engineers de-constructing it, and attempting to replicate its functionality in my factory.

Without patent protection, this could happen, and result in a product that costs half as much with similar production.

You can’t patent something you’ve been using more than a year already.

Hopefully, Bert has overcome his fear of patents, and developed some new production methods to speed things up, and protected them.