futureshapes and RR in the news in Au

Industry Talk
21

check out these patents…

who could afford to legally chase everyone who copies a design?

http://apa.hpa.com.au:8080/ipapa/view?hit=2&page=1

http://apa.hpa.com.au:8080/ipapa/view?hit=7&page=1

http://apa.hpa.com.au:8080/ipapa/view?hit=34&page=1

http://apa.hpa.com.au:8080/ipapa/view?hit=44&page=1

http://apa.hpa.com.au:8080/ipapa/view?hit=55&page=1

http://apa.hpa.com.au:8080/ipapa/view?hit=85&page=1

http://apa.hpa.com.au:8080/ipapa/view?hit=87&page=1

http://apa.hpa.com.au:8080/ipapa/view?hit=94&page=1

if you read a few of them you will see the point is if every one makes them its too expensive to maintain your patent

22

Actually blakestah, in the SW article Walker says the perimeter stringer is protected by patent - although in the same article Bert says it isn’t. Bert’s aversion to patents was based on the situation a small company faces- ie its better not to expose your ideas if you don’t have the money to persue patent infringement. Situation is different now - they have the means to fight it out in the courts - having the means, will make even Cobra think twice about ripping them off. Thailand and Australia have a free trade agreement now - IP protection would’ve been in the deal so Au companies should have better protection now.

Also Cobra are big and they’ve been doing things the same way for a period of time so they’ll be locked into certain processes, and they will be worried about canibalising their current markets and might be unable to change course.

Bert and co are creating a new market segment here so there’ll be a bit of uncertainty - they can modify their strategy as they go along. Big companies have annual business plans and projections based on current sales. they are like big ships that are slow to turn around.

23

my point is pinhead that if 40 different manufactures around the world released perimeter stringers there is no way of stopping them all…

eg thrusters were are marked difference but they were both done before and done by lots of others a short time after there is no catchment of financial gain or protection for the “origional” maker/creator/publisist"…

24
Quote:

my point is pinhead that if 40 different manufactures around the world released perimeter stringers there is no way of stopping them all…

The patent search links were all timed out - so I couldn’t see what you were on about. I agree, you couldn’t stop them - you could scare some of them off with just the threat of legal action.

If Future Shapes are successful and they create a market for high price, high performance boards, it’ll create opportunities for smaller companies to ride on their coat tails. Future Shapes won’t be able to service the entire market. I think most of the big guys will be locked into their current strategies, so it’ll be the smaller companies with composite experience who can capitalise.

There are ways Future shapes can protect their advantage. I won’t post them here for lurkers to pick up but there are things they can do.

25

I think there is entirely too much speculation going on here.

Thank you for being aware of the lurkers. Fear the lurkers.

That is the smart money. Everyone needs to go find another thread to clog up.

26

Just read some comments from Bert on the Surfermag forum that pretty much answered my questions about how guys like Merrick will fit into the picture - http://forum.surfermag.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=952528&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=2&vc=1

OT I kinda admire mayhem for the way he doesn’t let guys hang shit on him in that forum.

27

smart money lurks …

well some very clever deductions going on here …

the patent ???

like blakestah said , as a small business it was safer for me not to patent , as a patent was only good if you had the means to protect it …

but obviously what gives a company more value is if its IP is protected …

since ive hooked up with Nev , the processes have been refined and changes have occured due to having better technology available from resources and more creative minds involved , so now we do have a patentable product …

so our advantage as a company is the means to produce in a cost effective manner , so while small producers could potentially be doing a form of a parabolic rail , it would still cost more and not give the best results both in performance and durability , but of coarse you all know its still pretty good …

but the concept is not to cut the little guys and backyarders out , but to stop advances from major companies , by making it more difficult for them to make it profitable and deliver a good product …

i really must get some of these articles , crew have been ringing me saying theyve seen all sorts of media related stuff and yet i dont even get time to read a surf mag , im the worst when it comes to keeping media and memrobilia …

hey Dave you wont have to wait long for the photos …

some magazine editor from the states rang last week claiming he was holding photos of kelly ripping and wanted to know the deal …

Nev gave like a 2 hour interview with heaps of solid information …

i was supposed to talk with him to , but couldnt find the time for that either …

in general im still a little nervous about the amount of press being generated , if we had a factory pumping out thousands of boards maybe that would calm me , but now it seems the marketing guys are banging the drum …

so its busy, busy…

at least the R&D is done and the product is refined and tested , so its just a matter of ramping it up and the details …

guys like Dougall and Matthew and some of the others with major manufacturing experience have seen it all before , sensing i have some reservations in some areas because of previous bad experiences , have placed a team of professionals that are so good it blows me away , Dougall said to me , "you just worry about what you do best , keep creating the next level and go surfing we will worry about the rest " …

somebody pinch me !!!

of coarse im still involved alot more than that , i think that was painting a picture of my future job decription because right now im working more than i have for at least the last 5 years …

i cant remember how Greg worded it , but yea , watch this space …

were working on stuff now thats even blowing me away , amazing what a bunch of creative minds working as a team can do …

must give Josh a pat on the back , victoria lost one of its finest …

great craftsman , works flat out and is dam creative , hes probably in there right now working on kelly’s boards …

but at the same time there are crew working all over the world in many areas , and most with a link to sways …

also to stop one rumour before it becomes something more …

Quicksilvers Mike Olsen isnt involved with our current business , even tho there was some ideas getting thrown around at one stage before i teamed up with Nev …

without a doubt he is one guy i would love to have on the team , so while there is no association , if it were my call , i would leave the door open …

regards

BERT

28

“smart money lurks…yea , watch this space …” just a thought based on these comments…

one would hope that with the probably millions of views of Bert’s and Greg’s posts here, that they would commit that if their new venture is a success they would become corporate sponsors of Swaylocks, & take a little financial pressure off of Mike to keep his hard drives spinning.

How much is all this free publicity worth anyway?

Keep Swaylocks Alive! (see bottom of page…)

cheers!

29

Gotta agree with Keith here … obviously Sways has is a lot about what’s going on. Perhaps one day there needs to be a corperate sponser for this site. I would only see that as right if the thing remains as free wheeling as it is though.

Bert’s right about all the publicity. We aren’t even in production yet and there are so many waiting in line. We will get rolling shortly. You can’t believe how long it takes to get the money thing in line. I can concur with Bert on one thing though, what a team.

30

Be careful of what you wish for. You just may get it.

If you’re going to have a corporate sponsor you can’t censor. Case in point at surfermag forum, they can’t show certain things, especially when it goes against one of the big industry companies that gets 20 pages of ads. That magazine is like first 5 pages ads, index page, 10 pages various ads, then editor column, 20 pages of ads mixed with few articles . . .

I think TFAD was posting something about a quicksilver parody, had to remove it, cuz quickie pays the billz for surfer, well some of them.

Of course nearly all companies will not tolerate bad press on something they are paying money out to maintain . . . it takes a really cool company that knows their product rocks to allow bad press in because they have faith in what they, know their sense of direction and their customer base, know they have loyal customers, and know that when people see something good, they will support it.

31
Quote:

Bert’s right about all the publicity. We aren’t even in production yet and there are so many waiting in line

You can’t have guys like KS and Taj riding these things without attracting attention. Media are going to write about that sooner or later. Better to speak for yourselves than have others speak for you.

32

Hmm…caution here: I’m not sure Kelly surfing these boards is going to help sales as much as some are assuming. The people who buy boards that Kelly or other pros ride aren’t hardcore surfers. They are weekend warriors at best, or guys who just like a board propped up in the corner of their room. Will these guys be willing to pay extra for some fancy board they’ll never surf? Or will they just buy Kelly’s Channel Islands board or a CI branded import popout instead?

I think the new composites are something that will need to grow from the grassroots. This means there needs to be boards available for people to actually surf! It may not be smart to give boards for the likes of Kelly and Taj precedence over servicing orders for regular hardcore surfers who will get the boards out at beaches actually populated by other potential customers.

Am I the only who thinks the, “Hey, nice wave. What’s up with that board you are surfing,” type thing is going to sell more ‘alternative’ boards than pictures of pros in exotic locales?

Now, if the goal of getting Kelly on these boards isn’t to gain respect from actual surfers but simply to attract investors in the company, then yeah, good strategy.

33

I have a product that all board makers would design their boards around because it enhances the perfomance that much.It requires no change in method of making the board or materials used in the board and is done after finishing. I have a toll free # to the engineering department of the biggest company in the world if i ever can find someone i can trust.This can be used in many other things other than surfing.This # was given to me after i described this design to them. They dont surf, they just live in the real world and thats why they had no trouble understsanding its potential.

34

Greg(Griffin), are you talking about you’re variable drive system? I would love for you to enlighten us some more about the design aspects. I’m curious to know what size the fins are and if surface area came into the equation as you tweaked you’re system, or are you talking about something entirely different? Sorry, don’t mean to jack this thread…

So Bert, when can all the US Swaylockers jump on board? Some are attempting to sell boards made from you’re old technology, or variations of. You could probably find some good help. If you don’t give them jobs their drive to make the elusive Sunova will bankrupt them, you don’t want that on you’re conscience; do you? lol

I’m just wondering exactly what you are goign to patent? Be careful. Now that you’ve drawn this much attention, anybody can just change a small detail and essentially make the same board… What is more important is getting you’re product out there, faster, and more available then competitiors. I think it must be pretty difficult to reverse engineer you’re boards because there is so much going on, especially in the manufacturing phase… I guess it’s essential if you want to license you’re technology though…

You know what would be really interesting, a thread that highlights what all these great minds here really think about their passion, where they want to see it go, what they hope to accomplish, I hear you’re quite the philosopher Bert…

35

Its not a fin design, and can be used in many sports. In 1998 i talked to some people invovled in the Americas cup and they were twitching for more information. It would be sucked up instantly without protection.

36
Quote:

If you’re going to have a corporate sponsor you can’t censor. Case in point at surfermag forum, they can’t show certain things, especially when it goes against one of the big industry companies that gets 20 pages of ads. That magazine is like first 5 pages ads, index page, 10 pages various ads, then editor column, 20 pages of ads mixed with few articles . . .

which goes to show

nothing you see or read in the news is actually true.

37
Quote:

Am I the only who thinks the, “Hey, nice wave. What’s up with that board you are surfing,” type thing is going to sell more ‘alternative’ boards than pictures of pros in exotic locales?

Mmmmmm… Yes? No offense. There is a reason just about every major sporting good maker on the planet endorses athletes to the tune of Thousands of Thousands of dollars a year. They call them millions. :smiley:

Just look at what Kelly’s board designs did for shapes in the early 1990s. Now, that doesn’t mean you and me are going to buy something K rides, but if he ripped on them, we know it works, right? If you take that shape, mulitply the thickness by 2, add 2 inches to the width, 4 to the height and make the nose all round so I don’t put my eye out, maybe I could rip on one too. :smiley:

38

"guys like Dougall and Matthew and some of the others with major manufacturing experience have seen it all before , sensing i have some reservations in some areas because of previous bad experiences , have placed a team of professionals that are so good it blows me away , Dougall said to me , "you just worry about what you do best , keep creating the next level and go surfing we will worry about the rest " …

somebody pinch me !!!

of coarse im still involved alot more than that , i think that was painting a picture of my future job decription because right now im working more than i have for at least the last 5 years … "

Hey Bert,

The questions remain… who are the people in control of our industry future? Where do their hearts lie? What is their industry/surf cred? Can the industry trust them?

A lot of us know about Dougal and his surfing cred. as a ex-pro and clothing guru are 10 out of 10!

But who are these other “with major manufacturing experience” and was that making surfboards…or boardshorts, champion racehorses or maybe just money?

You asked for somebody to pinch you, well tell us about who these backers/bankers are, who is Mathew and what’s his surf cred…your the one man who can calm the nerves!

You seem like you deserve all good things Bert…if you really believe you can just be creative and go surfing and leave the worry to them… i hope you are right… lead with your heart as it will guide you.

39
Quote:

others with major manufacturing experience have seen it all before

Be careful Bert - manufacturing products in a mature market ie PU/PE surfboards or surfwear is a different deal to developing a new technology and creating a new market - high performance high price surfboards are a new market. Mature markets are all about process innovation - getting your costs down usually within a fairly stable planning environment. Developing new products for new markets is way more unpredictable and needs a different approach. Your people need to have experience in developing new tech for new markets (people who have worked in wakeboards/kiteboards or fin systems would be good). If you’ve got time to read - ie long flight coming up - check out this book:The Innovator’s Dilemma: When New Technologies Cause Great Firms to Fail (Management of Innovation and Change) - by CM Christensen

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0875845851/104-6914785-7475149?v=glance&n=283155

Don’t let them pigeonhole you as the mad inventor and lock you in the lab - stay engaged in the strategy side of the business - you’ve got excellent analytical skills - an asset whether applied to design or business.

40

Thataboy Pinhead, articulate and contemporary advice…give up your day job and become Bert’s business manager. Hope he can see the support in your warm advice as offered.