If it's all so easy why do so many shapers fail miserably at figuring it out?
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Now that is an incisive observation. A great many ''shapers'' simply copy what is popular at the moment, and never apply any critical evaluation of the design, and therefore do not gain an understanding. They end up parroting the promotional hype that is offered by whoever is offering the ''new hot thing.'' I watched the full presentation. Quite a few of his principles, and theories, were what I was exposed to, by the late 50's Windansea crew of shapers and designers. He has his own way of expressing his principles, which are, by and large, correct. Not 100% mind you, but close enough to produce an excellent performing surfboard. I think I'd enjoy a chat with the gentleman!
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Is there such a thing as 100% correct regarding surfboard design , Bill ?
Is there such a thing as 100% correct regarding surfboard design , Bill ?
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In a narrow sense, yes. Is there one design good for 100% of waves and conditions? No. It is, however, the holy grail worth persuing.
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With all due respect to all shapers due earned credit and I have given it here for years....how do you explain good surfers who try designs some say are proven,...even in the narrow sense and move on to something else? Or...even average to below who don't like something someone told them would work for them? Is it the theory that is wrong, or that not all things work for all folks?
If there was such a thing as 100% correct regarding surfboard design why wouldn't everyone be doing it. I think the one 100% correct statement is that it ALL works to some degree. How do you want to surf? I think for some surfers, the nuggets and the like are actually good for 80% of the waves they ride..for those surfers. Others not..they like other things. There is no one right way to do surfboards. There is only the way each shaper decides is right for him and it will be accepted by some and not by others or it could be rejected by most. I still like single fins when most jumped off them because I like the way they feel. Others don't think they work at all. Same with twins, quads and five fins and etc. I still love much about the theories in question. Especially with regards to weight and momentum, but who I am I to tell some kid that is having fun on his concaved fireball fish he is wrong?
I've only just realized that you posted a private message I made to you nearly a year ago .Wow. I stand by what I posted in this thread that made you break every code of freindship and decency I can think of. Looks like I backed the wrong horse, the one I thought was a dick turned out to be the only bloke not selling something on Swaylocks.
In one of Geoff's rambling parables he states that the nugget (and by implication all of his boards) are not really made for elite surfers. Did he come to this conclusion during or after one of Australia's best ever surfers wasted his fifteen minutes and subsiquent post career earning potential ?
And yes, I still have a couple of McCoy's, I just don't want to be part of your cult and they just dont work as well as the manufacturer states they do.
Am i a dick for doing that? I was simply interested in why you don’t like the boards anymore and whether you’ve found something you do like? Didn’t mean anything by it at all.
Final note, i’m not selling anything, nor am i part of a cult. I currently have one mccoy board in my quiver. I own two of mick mackie’s boards and rave about those online - does that make me one of his disciples?
Not really followed this thread the whole way through but when I checked in again I was really surprised to read the ranting/offensive comments etc.
I live near the shop that made the vids... they were made to promote the boards in the UK primarily but obviously put out to the whole world.
That shop does a raring trade in imported Aussie boards sold for a premium price...maybe at the expense of the UK manufacturers but that's a different story and clearly their public likes them as he's selling loads.
The vids weren't made by Geoff but just as a resource to help promote the boards in the UK market so there's clearly no agenda there to infiltrate our community.
I recently read the rules of Sways in the general discussion and I'm feeling that some of the comments clealry infringe them...
Lets all make friends...and if you can't maybe it's time to look for another forum.
Been stuck in school all day listening to kids bitching each other off and when I grabbed a moment to breathe I visited sways only to find more bitching...
Can I get you to compare the Mackies to the McCoy re float etc. Was thinking about getting an EPS Mini-Sim from Mackie in the not too distant future. Would love to hear your opinion…
Huckleberry, kayu, Batoes, others: Do you guys really want to have a discussion on the merit, lack of merit or other elements of what Geoff had to say in the videos without any Yeah Buts? Honest question.
Huckleberry, kayu, Batoes, others: Do you guys really want to have a discussion on the merit, lack of merit or other elements of what Geoff had to say in the videos without any Yeah Buts? Honest question.
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Honest answer: Sure I would. I'll send you a p.m. for futher details.
I saw those videos about a week before this thread was started, and I liked what I saw. Not sure what all the fuss is about. I like seeing the posts from Maurice Cole about his board theory and it’s 180 degrees in the opposite direction, but he’s building for high speed intense surfing, and McCoy’s building for beginner to intermediate surfers.
I think it’s great that we can watch these videos with these highly respected designers talking about their products and why they do what they do. There’s a lot of videos online now with all kinds of great shapers. I watched videos from Stretch, Merrick, Simon, Rusty, Aipa, and others, and it’s great to be able to hear what they have to say. Check out Stretch’s video taking about bottom rocker, that’s interesting and different from McCoy’s.
I just wish I could actually try those boards, then filter it all down to what works best for me and the waves I ride.
A few years ago I had the honor of traveling to Byron Bay and spending 2 weeks discussing board design with Mr. McCoy. I was sent there to learn about McCoy surfboards so that I could shape them elsewhere and eliminate the large extra costs to get them overseas from Aus. I have been building bds for 30 + years and have heard my fair share of BS, particularly from shapers who try and talk a good game and lack the basics of hydrodynamics.
Geoff is a straight shooter who has seen behind the curtain of pro surfing and most importantly the fact that 98% of the surfers of the world enjoy the thrill of the ride and are not attempting to impress anyone. (judges have a very large influence on board design).
Plain and simple, he has discovered concepts and designs that are rider friendly and hydrodynamic. The Nugget is what he says it is: neutral. It goes where your thinking of going and you don’t have to have the skill set of a Kelly. (remember, most pros could ride a door).
If you like to boost and/or tell you buddies that your board thickness is in the low 2’s you won’t like a Nugget, but I bet Nuggets create more smiles than the potato chips that the sheep ride.
Love him or loath him, he is a mans man for sticking to his beliefs and not walking in lock step selling light, weak pro cloned boards that last a year at best.
In my opinion he is one of the top board builders of all time.
P.S. The deal fell apart and I do not shape Nuggets but I tried them and they work well.
It would be great if you could elaborate on Geoff's theories regarding pressure if possible? I think Cheyne once described the bottom shape as reacting in the same way a watermelon pip does when you squeeze it, with the fin(s) giving direction to this thrust. It sounds entirely logical to me, but I've found it dificult to adjust my style to the Nuggets I've ridden.
Do you still ride a Nugget-type design or have you incorporated some of the elements into your own designs?
There is only one true Guru.............the Groovy-Garoo ! yeah ,yeah...I know..........he worked for KAOS , but given half a chance , he would have triumphed over Max , the Chief and 99 !.......and everyone knows it !!!
