the apex is between ur feet
One word to describe his vids- Excellent! Fyi- folk’s I watched his vids about 4 x’s, and it’s all rock solid info on his own personal style of shaping I think. But he covers some rock solid basics- to - advanced stuff for sure! And all stuff one can actually use to improve their craft. Thanks- Geoff and Huck for sharing!
That said, I hope to try one of - Mr. MCcoy’s boards one of these days.in the meantime, well I just ordered a blank so I will try his rocker idea! Also, his thickness flow tips… It is true that the planing area needs to be smooth for proper flow…
Wow, thanks Huck!
Those are are great.
After reading about McCoy’s designs for years, I finally got a little bit of handle on how they work. Nice, clear descriptions of the theory, and so cool to see how all of the elements work together: rails, foil, fin, outline.
Kayu,
What I am asking is where is the rocker apex relative to the mid point of the deck at horizontal.
Is it at halfway, or in line the wide point which is below half way.
I am interested in where a surfers feet are relative to this point.
Shapaholic,
The planing area has convex, just less than at the nose and tail.
Wish I had access to a nugget to measure these things exactly.
rocker apex is midway depending how you measure...apex of dome is between ur feet........its designed to be surfed off the back foot ( and there's no hand-brake)
It all sounds reasonable in theory, but in practise it doesn't perform as best it could if the tail were a fair bit thinner. You've already got the width in the tail and the tail being so thick just makes the board sink tail first if you head for the shoulder of the wave or if the surf is not so powerful. I think when the boards are ridden short its less of a problem.
You could also never accuse a nugget of having any glide also, as the hull or belly or what ever you want to call it pushes water as soon as you try to move your weight forward to stop the tail sinking. Side fins do more than act as training wheels too, as Geoff and everybody else already knows.
Yep, nice lighting, exposure and voice levels…just a pity the content lets it down.
Anyone who saw the legends surf on the final day of the QS pro PTTZ, Cheyne, Simon, MR X, Occy, HO, TC etc could plainly see that the equipment and level of surfing of all but Cheyne had progresed beyond most of them even in their glory days (taking of course an added 20 years and 20 to 40 lbs).
Pottz busting tails, going vertical with speed and flair, Simon same but a bit less taking his size in tiny waves. Even TC surfed better than Cheyne when he jumped on his SUP.
Please don’t get me wrong Cheyne Horan is and was a great surfer…how great he could have been riding more evolved and better boards is anyones guess.
You only have to look at the way his board bogs from bottom turns to cutbacks in the first video clip to witness the limitations restricting his performance, which although outstanding, is '70’s stuff.
Sorry, but that is what I am seeing, and I surely are not on my pat malone, please name the last influential surfer who used Geoff’s shapes, fins or theories to win an event of world standing. So love 'em all you like and enjoy surfing them till you arms hurt…but then again those Aussies like that Vegimite stuff…guess it is a matter of taste.
Rocky
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Videos well done.
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Yep, nice lighting, exposure and voice levels...just a pity the content lets it down.
Anyone who saw the legends surf on the final day of the QS pro PTTZ, Cheyne, Simon, MR X, Occy, HO, TC etc could plainly see that the equipment and level of surfing of all but Cheyne had progresed beyond most of them even in their glory days (taking of course an added 20 years and 20 to 40 lbs).
Pottz busting tails, going vertical with speed and flair, Simon same but a bit less taking his size in tiny waves. Even TC surfed better than Cheyne when he jumped on his SUP.
Please don't get me wrong Cheyne Horan is and was a great surfer...how great he could have been riding more evolved and better boards is anyones guess.
You only have to look at the way his board bogs from bottom turns to cutbacks in the first video clip to witness the limitations restricting his performance, which although outstanding, is '70's stuff.
Sorry, but that is what I am seeing, and I surely are not on my pat malone, please name the last influential surfer who used Geoff's shapes, fins or theories to win an event of world standing. So love 'em all you like and enjoy surfing them till you arms hurt...but then again those Aussies like that Vegimite stuff...guess it is a matter of taste.
Rocky
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I've never owned or ridden a McCoy board, so I don't really have a horse in this race. But I think the point of the videos being well done was that Geoff explained the thinking behind his boards pretty clearly. Not that they had good lighting, exposure, or voice levels. You can agree or disagree with his ideas (BTW, I don't think he's shaping boards for pros on the world tour these days, so that's not his target market), but at least he laid his theories out clearly for all to see. Wish more shapers did the same.
C'mon huck, maybe Rocklobster is right. Maybe geoff should stop thinking for himself and start making wafer thin high performance short boards, that's what all the famous shapers are doing :).
I was thinking about concaves today, they provide lift, yeah?, people criticise the McCoys for riding on top of the water, due to the volume, but if a concave provides lift, wouldn't that mean adding concaves would also make the board surf more on top of the water too?? Most HPSB have a single to double.
I like the generally logical thinking and explanations on various aspects of his designs but c'mon... does he really say "It's actually got a mind and a memory" at 0:40 in the "Design Theories" video?
Is he referring to water?
People seem to forget that these boards are not designed for pro -surfers . I'm sure G McC could tweak a board for a pro surfer if he needed to, or wanted to . His success over so many years kinda speaks for itself. I still think that for a few years Cheyne Horan was the best pro surfer in the world, regardless of who got the gold pumpkin...
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I like the generally logical thinking and explanations on various aspects of his designs but c'mon... does he really say "It's actually got a mind and a memory" at 0:40 in the "Design Theories" video?
Is he referring to water?
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LOL, I didn't catch that before, because of the accent. Reminds me of a saying I hear a lot in the building trades when discussing roof flashing theory, "you have to learn to think like water".
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People seem to forget that these boards are not designed for pro -surfers . I'm sure G McC could tweak a board for a pro surfer if he needed to, or wanted to . His success over so many years kinda speaks for itself. I still think that for a few years Cheyne Horan was the best pro surfer in the world, regardless of who got the gold pumpkin...
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In the surfingworld interview, it pegs his market as "older, larger surfers, beginners, average recreational surfers wanting to catch more waves and accomplished surfers looking for something new" - so I guess the measure of his success isn't Who was the last influential surfer to use his shapes fins or theories to win an event of world standing, but Who was the last middle-aged surfer of average ability to catch more waves and have fun on a McCoy board LOL.
Pineypiney- you said: One question I would like to know is, does the apex of the rocker/dome correspond to where the wide point is ? yes it does.
Measuring is a good idea! Start small, and shape in what you want. Afterall- you’re the designer, shaper and surfer…
Is there any film of that online anywhere ?
I’d love to see it - googled 'til the cows come home but no joy …
No Huckleberry, the logic for success that can be derived from that quote would be the number of “older, larger surfers, beginners, average recreational surfers wanting
to catch more waves and accomplished surfers looking for something new” that acheived that goal, not the selective subset that you arbitrarily selected from the quote. LOL
Nuc/fish…it was part of the live online telecast gig and not sure if is still on the ASP?QS PRO web site under heats on demand. Prolly not as it was just a filla event…but shit it spoke volumes as to equipment evolution.
Those who say here that geoff’s boards are good for older, heavier or non pros should take note that it was that display that really highlighted the fallacy of that thinking.
Yes those guys were once world class but what they were riding last week were not ‘wafer thin’ pro trash. They were older, heavier guys riding boards that had evolved (except for Cheyne) from the seventies and their surfing showed exactly that. Kelly is not that much youger than cheyne but can you imagine where surfing would be if shapers like Geoff guided Kelly’s thinking and understanding of waves and that water has a “memory”, and that a seagulls wing that works in a medium of air (being 1000 times less dense that his beloved water with memory) would provide the answer and enlightenment for our sport and culture…sounds to me like some serious substances have been consumed over the past 30 years to start preaching that as being any sort of credible mechanical explanation as to why his boards are special. He even uses some special heavy duty magic glass and magic quality blanks.
As I said, it is a matter of taste, but the easiest thing to do as a shaper is make a board that floats and catches waves for older or no pro surfers and wack a shitload of glass on it so it lasts years and put one fin on it cause it is cheaper and whoever is riding it can’t surf yhat well or wants to surf like we did 30 years ago…and presto, your a freakin guru and can sell glassed blanks with part of a seagull hangin off the arse end and a McCoy logo that gives one a special insight and exclusive relationship with OMO…your in 70’s heaven and lining up to buy tickets to Woodstock 2
Are we having fun yet??
Rock…the only thing water can remember is that…fish are always F&%KIN in it, is self leveling (ie no bulls&%t) and is constantly bloody WET
Too much fly spray ?
Waste of time
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If it's all so easy why do so many shapers fail miserably at figuring it out?
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Now that is an incisive observation. A great many ''shapers'' simply copy what is popular at the moment, and never apply any critical evaluation of the design, and therefore do not gain an understanding. They end up parroting the promotional hype that is offered by whoever is offering the ''new hot thing.'' I watched the full presentation. Quite a few of his principles, and theories, were what I was exposed to, by the late 50's Windansea crew of shapers and designers. He has his own way of expressing his principles, which are, by and large, correct. Not 100% mind you, but close enough to produce an excellent performing surfboard. I think I'd enjoy a chat with the gentleman!
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Good shapers who surf know how to make a surfboard work. There are many. Like there are many functional designs. However...they ain't gurus and never were. Just toy makers. Here the thing on theories and principles as things pertain to surfers...they are all flawed once you get past float, fins and plan shape... because no two surfers weight and unweight the same on a wave, move the same, and no two waves are the same. Not to mention surfboards. No two of them are the complete same either.
How do you want to surf? Does your board float you? What is your experience and conditioning? Go from there. The rest is just another sales pitch..