i was wondering what you guys thaT have to glass at night like me do my shop has not heat and say the temp drops to the mid 40’s what should i do? some of you in flordia might answer this better since i’m in NCFL thanks
I was hoping someone would post to this msg as I had the same question. I am in North Florida as well and was going to glass a board this past weekend but with the cold snap the temps never got above 55 in my garage. During the summer with all the heat and humidity I was going to .75% on the catalyst and it seemed to be the right amount for the conditions in my garage (went down to .75% because my first attempt in those conditions was a 1% and it kicked my ass.) I was thinking of going up to 1 or even a little above to make sure it kicks when it got colder like this weekend but decided to wait until it warmed up. What happens if you do not get enough catalyst to kick for the given conditions? Does it just become a goo ball?>>> i was wondering what you guys thaT have to glass at night like me do my > shop has not heat and say the temp drops to the mid 40’s what should i do? > some of you in flordia might answer this better since i’m in NCFL thanks
I was hoping someone would post to this msg as I had the same question. I > am in North Florida as well and was going to glass a board this past > weekend but with the cold snap the temps never got above 55 in my garage. > During the summer with all the heat and humidity I was going to .75% on > the catalyst and it seemed to be the right amount for the conditions in my > garage (went down to .75% because my first attempt in those conditions was > a 1% and it kicked my ass.) I was thinking of going up to 1 or even a > little above to make sure it kicks when it got colder like this weekend > but decided to wait until it warmed up.>>> What happens if you do not get enough catalyst to kick for the given > conditions? Does it just become a goo ball? If your lam job takes to long to set up the resin will drain out of the glass and into the blank. This will weaken you lamination and when you have to sweet coat the bottom to fill in the glass it’ll increase the weight of the board. Try UV resin, it doesn’t care how cold it is as long as there’s sun to kick it off. Aloha, Kokua
Thanks Kokua… I need to try the UV Resin probalby well worth the extra $. You used the term Sweet Coat is this the same as basting? Mike>>> If your lam job takes to long to set up the resin will drain out of the > glass and into the blank. This will weaken you lamination and when you > have to sweet coat the bottom to fill in the glass it’ll increase the > weight of the board. Try UV resin, it doesn’t care how cold it is as long > as there’s sun to kick it off. Aloha, Kokua
Thanks Kokua… I need to try the UV Resin probalby well worth the extra > $. You used the term Sweet Coat is this the same as basting?>>> Mike Okay guys you think it’s cold when the temp drops to the 50’s??? Hell i build in Washington state and have built boards in the winter with snow on the ground… the best trick for you is warm your resin in the house or put a little ( oil filled )heater in a big box and keep your resin in it. that helps thin and warm the resin. Basting? sweet coat?? how about a “Fill Coat” we did it in the islands 25 years ago when we did tints. we would glass the board cold then make a a hot fill coat using the same color. Never fill coat only shittttty glassers have to fill coat… A good glasser is done in ten? No fill then… Rob
Okay guys you think it’s cold when the temp drops to the 50’s??? Hell i > build in Washington state and have built boards in the winter with snow on > the ground… the best trick for you is warm your resin in the house or put > a little ( oil filled )heater in a big box and keep your resin in it. that > helps thin and warm the resin. Basting? sweet coat?? how about a > “Fill Coat” we did it in the islands 25 years ago when we did > tints. we would glass the board cold then make a a hot fill coat using the > same color. Never fill coat only shittttty glassers have to fill coat… A > good glasser is done in ten? No fill then… Rob 25 years ago most boards were glossed and you didn’t need a sweet coat to fill any pin air. These days most boards are a sanded finish,so the sweet coat just fills those pesky little pin air holes just like the hot coat did before a gloss. No surfer wants their board to get those pesky little brown spots all over the bottom. It’s more of a precaution step than a fix. Every glasser on Kauai and other glassers that I know use this step to insure a totally sealed finish on sanded finishes, but it’s not necessary for a glossed finish.Some of these guys have been laminating for well over 25 years and they know what it takes to turn out a quality glass job. A real pro glasser 25 years ago could do a tint lam without needing a tinted fill coat( which is a fix )to hide their uneven lamination. I learned to glass with tints and pigments, and back then a person who had to do a tint fill coat to correct their flaws ended up not being a glasser.Aloha, Kokua
25 years ago most boards were glossed and you didn’t need a sweet coat to > fill any pin air. These days most boards are a sanded finish,so the sweet > coat just fills those pesky little pin air holes just like the hot coat > did before a gloss. No surfer wants their board to get those pesky little > brown spots all over the bottom. It’s more of a precaution step than a > fix. Every glasser on Kauai and other glassers that I know use this step > to insure a totally sealed finish on sanded finishes, but it’s not > necessary for a glossed finish.Some of these guys have been laminating for > well over 25 years and they know what it takes to turn out a quality glass > job. A real pro glasser 25 years ago could do a tint lam without needing a > tinted fill coat( which is a fix )to hide their uneven lamination. I > learned to glass with tints and pigments, and back then a person who had > to do a tint fill coat to correct their flaws ended up not being a > glasser.Aloha, Kokua Hey Kokua i have a question does not pin air come from uneven lamination? Just as in a uneven tint lamination. I mean we used it as a step to insure a “Perfect” pro lamination. It was just a precaution as is done to end those pesky pin airs from a dry lam… Think about it. We all have our ways of building the Perfect Mouse trap right! I was always told and believe a good lam kicks in ten so as you clean that last bit of drip its kicking so that that as close to dry lam won’t drain. Hence no fill, basting, or sweet coats…No pin, no uneven tint lams and pesky pin airs to see just a perfect lamination just like Mil Ross showed me some 30 years ago. Just my thoughts about what you said. What ever works to make it Right… By Hand… Laters Rob
Hey Kokua i have a question does not pin air come from uneven lamination? > Just as in a uneven tint lamination. I mean we used it as a step to insure > a “Perfect” pro lamination. It was just a precaution as is done > to end those pesky pin airs from a dry lam… Think about it. We all have > our ways of building the Perfect Mouse trap right! I was always told and > believe a good lam kicks in ten so as you clean that last bit of drip its > kicking so that that as close to dry lam won’t drain. Hence no fill, > basting, or sweet coats…No pin, no uneven tint lams and pesky pin airs to > see just a perfect lamination just like Mil Ross showed me some 30 years > ago. Just my thoughts about what you said. What ever works to make it > Right… By Hand… Laters Rob …I got it down to the wire,and sweetbasting coats are imporatant!Other wise can you say…it went off in my bucket before I lapped the rails.Herb
Hey Kokua i have a question does not pin air come from uneven lamination? > Just as in a uneven tint lamination. I mean we used it as a step to insure > a “Perfect” pro lamination. It was just a precaution as is done > to end those pesky pin airs from a dry lam… Think about it. We all have > our ways of building the Perfect Mouse trap right! I was always told and > believe a good lam kicks in ten so as you clean that last bit of drip its > kicking so that that as close to dry lam won’t drain. Hence no fill, > basting, or sweet coats…No pin, no uneven tint lams and pesky pin airs to > see just a perfect lamination just like Mil Ross showed me some 30 years > ago. Just my thoughts about what you said. What ever works to make it > Right… By Hand… Laters Rob Howzit Rob, 25 years ago you were probably using 7 1/2 oz glass, I know I was, which is thicker and would hold more resin in between the weave. With thinner 4 oz glass there is less resin so even when done in 10 mins.(you never said 10 what but I’m sure you mean 10 mins.)there’s going to be some drainage into the foam while you finish the rails. It’s the law of gravity taking over, not an un even lamination. You could add and squeegee some more resin but since the resin is still liquid you’ll force more resin into the foam which just adds weight. Remember how much a board weighed 25 years ago as opposed to todays lightweight chips. I timed my mentor (Gary Ternagle) one time, hows 2 min 34 secs sound, the guy was an amazing board builder(owned Plastic Fantastic til the factory burned down). 10 mins. for a lam job is right on, but you mentioned doing cold lams for tints then doing a tinted hot coat. I was taught that that would lead to a softer and weaker lam especially on the deck which means lots of pressure dents. I wait 24 hrs before doing hot coats and it does make a difference in that respect. My thoughts,Aloha, Kokua
…Rob knows glassing (and shaping, too)…His results speak for themself…I’ll be a witness… Paul
…Rob knows glassing (and shaping, too)…His results speak for > themself…I’ll be a witness…>>> Paul …I hear you Paul,I think the “regional” thing has alot to do with it.Rob glasses in the tundra,Kokua glasses in the jungle,and I glass in the(for the most part)desert.All of us are going to have a different approach to achieve similar results.I believe both Rob,and Kokua are outstanding glassers,and that we all could learn alot from.Herb
…I hear you Paul,I think the “regional” thing has alot > to do with it.Rob glasses in the tundra,Kokua glasses in the jungle,and I > glass in the(for the most part)desert.All of us are going to have a > different approach to achieve similar results.I believe both Rob,and Kokua > are outstanding glassers,and that we all could learn alot from.Herb I guess thats the beauty of hand crafted products,different methods etc.I always keep an open ear for new tricks.As for the pin air thing it is more of a problem on light blanks (superblue) and four ounce glass plus the extreme rocker bends in short thrusters makes for a drain problem.For novice glassers the “sweetcoat” as you guys call it is a good measure.U.V. Resins are the ticket for small operations. R. Brucker
I guess thats the beauty of hand crafted products,different methods etc.I > always keep an open ear for new tricks.As for the pin air thing it is more > of a problem on light blanks (superblue) and four ounce glass plus the > extreme rocker bends in short thrusters makes for a drain problem.For > novice glassers the “sweetcoat” as you guys call it is a good > measure.U.V. Resins are the ticket for small operations. R. Brucker Todays blanks are blowing a lot more gas then they used to is another reason I like to do a sweetcoat. Sometimes that won’t even work,got some real farters a couple months ago.Aloha from the Jungle, Kokua P.S. Hanalei was easily 10 foot today,We’ve had a good season so far and it’s basically just started.
Todays blanks are blowing a lot more gas then they used to is another > reason I like to do a sweetcoat. Sometimes that won’t even work,got some > real farters a couple months ago.Aloha from the Jungle, Kokua>>> P.S. Hanalei was easily 10 foot today,We’ve had a good season so far and > it’s basically just started. …Soon K. Got to focus on my problems right now,but I do see light at the end of the “tunnels”… from the desert to the jungle.Herb
Hey Kokua i have a question does not pin air come from uneven lamination? > Just as in a uneven tint lamination. I mean we used it as a step to insure > a “Perfect” pro lamination. It was just a precaution as is done > to end those pesky pin airs from a dry lam… Think about it. We all have > our ways of building the Perfect Mouse trap right! I was always told and > believe a good lam kicks in ten so as you clean that last bit of drip its > kicking so that that as close to dry lam won’t drain. Hence no fill, > basting, or sweet coats…No pin, no uneven tint lams and pesky pin airs to > see just a perfect lamination just like Mil Ross showed me some 30 years > ago. Just my thoughts about what you said. What ever works to make it > Right… By Hand… Laters Rob Howzit Rob, I’m not Dissing on you, after all you are a fellow vet glasser. Farting blanks also cause pin air also. I actually started doing sweetcoat on the lap to avoid hitting the weave,it worked, then tried it on the rails for the same reason and it made a big difference the natural progression took it to doing the bottom. I’m sure you’ve seen some boards where there’s weave showing on the rails and bottom. Some of the worst ones I’ve seen were on very popular name brand boards. I just don’t think a quality high priced board should have this flaw.I also don’t believe in spraying a coat of lacquar on the board to hide it, but a lot of factories do just that. On boards that get a G/P sweetcoats aren’t necessary and I don’t do them. I was against UV resin at first because I figured it would take the timing mystique out of lamming and any kook would be able to glass. But the first time I used it and took the board outside, it kicked off hard before I even got it to rack outside. Then poured the leftover resin back into the drum I knew there was a plus to the stuff,saving money. Have you tried it yet, it doesn’t care how cold it is outside as long as the sun is out. Now if it would kick in the rain ( we do get a little) it would be perfect. Now I’m setting up my paint room to double as a UV curing room. Let the monsoons come cause they won’t stop me anymore. Aloha from the jungle (83 degrees today), Kokua
Howzit Rob, 25 years ago you were probably using 7 1/2 oz glass, I know I > was, which is thicker and would hold more resin in between the weave. With > thinner 4 oz glass there is less resin so even when done in 10 mins.(you > never said 10 what but I’m sure you mean 10 mins.)there’s going to be some > drainage into the foam while you finish the rails. It’s the law of gravity > taking over, not an un even lamination. You could add and squeegee some > more resin but since the resin is still liquid you’ll force more resin > into the foam which just adds weight. Remember how much a board weighed 25 > years ago as opposed to todays lightweight chips. I timed my mentor (Gary > Ternagle) one time, hows 2 min 34 secs sound, the guy was an amazing board > builder(owned Plastic Fantastic til the factory burned down). 10 mins. for > a lam job is right on, but you mentioned doing cold lams for tints then > doing a tinted hot coat. I was taught that that would lead to a softer and > weaker lam especially on the deck which means lots of pressure dents. I > wait 24 hrs before doing hot coats and it does make a difference in that > respect. My thoughts,Aloha, Kokua I like Pride in what we believe in when it comes to building boards. I’m realy old school when it comes to glassing and even more when it comes to shaping. I do believe you miss understood me when i was talking about fill coats. I was working with Brian Hine in the back of the old Fiberglass Hawaii on Kona street we did all of Robby Burns Local Motions when all he did was shape. We also did all of Gerrys Bolts it was about 77 i think. What we did was shot the resin colder to insure time to lap and cause the factory was hot!!! Then we would take a little of the same resin that we saved and set aside and kick it hot!! It was just a fill and it would allow us to trim the cut line faster with in a very shot time… As you remember back then everything was cut. We used 6 oz most of the time. Back in 73 at South Shore we did use 8 oz or as we know it 7.5. Sweet coating has it’s place thats for sure. I have always called it fill coating and Pasting was laps top and bottom before hotcoating for that clean sand. I was a Jack of all in shops but my main job was always Sanding best money for time spent. The other reason is on the North shore in the 70’s good sanders were loved by all the glass shops. My thoughts on UV resin cool for repair. to old to change what i know works. my little single rack lam room with heat works perfect. The night before I crank the heat in the morning the room and everything in it is 90 even when it 35 out side… The other thing is i have plenty to do when my lams kick. Lam three shape one hour half later the laps are ready to clean and dress. always busy. The other thing about uv is drip trays??? i never liked drip trays that’s my feelings about UV… It’s like Hot Dip??? please it makes your board yellow to start with??? Old School is and always will be the way!! The right way… I’ve seen a lot of things come and go but glassing is still the same when you get right down to it… Later Rob PS: Westport was 7 feet at 13 sec. sunny and nice maybe 55 today… I was sanding all day??? so no I didn’t surf #$#@^%&^ tomorrow…
Later Rob PS: Westport was 7 feet at 13 sec. sunny and nice maybe 55 > today… I was sanding all day??? so no I didn’t surf > #$#@^%&^ tomorrow… …tears are hitting my keyboard… …You didn’t mention the offshore winds… …HA HA HA HA HA HA … Paul
I like Pride in what we believe in when it comes to building boards. I’m > realy old school when it comes to glassing and even more when it comes to > shaping. I do believe you miss understood me when i was talking about fill > coats. I was working with Brian Hine in the back of the old Fiberglass > Hawaii on Kona street we did all of Robby Burns Local Motions when all he > did was shape. We also did all of Gerrys Bolts it was about 77 i think. > What we did was shot the resin colder to insure time to lap and cause the > factory was hot!!! Then we would take a little of the same resin that we > saved and set aside and kick it hot!! It was just a fill and it would > allow us to trim the cut line faster with in a very shot time… As you > remember back then everything was cut. We used 6 oz most of the time. Back > in 73 at South Shore we did use 8 oz or as we know it 7.5. Sweet coating > has it’s place thats for sure. I have always called it fill coating and > Pasting was laps top and bottom before hotcoating for that clean sand. I > was a Jack of all in shops but my main job was always Sanding best money > for time spent. The other reason is on the North shore in the 70’s good > sanders were loved by all the glass shops.>>> My thoughts on UV resin cool for repair. to old to change what i know > works. my little single rack lam room with heat works perfect. The night > before I crank the heat in the morning the room and everything in it is 90 > even when it 35 out side… The other thing is i have plenty to do when my > lams kick. Lam three shape one hour half later the laps are ready to clean > and dress. always busy. The other thing about uv is drip trays??? i never > liked drip trays that’s my feelings about UV… It’s like Hot Dip??? > please it makes your board yellow to start with??? Old School is and > always will be the way!! The right way… I’ve seen a lot of things come > and go but glassing is still the same when you get right down to it…>>> Later Rob PS: Westport was 7 feet at 13 sec. sunny and nice maybe 55 > today… I was sanding all day??? so no I didn’t surf > #$#@^%&^ tomorrow… I know what you mean about hot in Hono. When I first got to oahu in 70’ I did some glassing for Rich Parr on Queen St., his factory (ha, ha ) was above the shop and he had cheese cloth on all the windows to keep the dust down for glossing. That room was at least 90+ degrees and miserable to work in. I had to wrap a towel on my head to keep the sweat from dripping while lamming. After 2 weeks I’d had enough of that and gave him the old see ya. I’ve heard tales of UV resin doing the yellow thing but never had it happen to my work. Even my hot coats which I shoot normal with catalyst then take outside to crisp have never turned yellow and I figured that if it was going to happen that should do it.Aloha from the Jungle, Kokua
…I hear you Paul,I think the “regional” thing has alot > to do with it.Rob glasses in the tundra,Kokua glasses in the jungle,and I > glass in the(for the most part)desert.All of us are going to have a > different approach to achieve similar results.I believe both Rob,and Kokua > are outstanding glassers,and that we all could learn alot from.Herb Howzit Herb, Just curious as to where in the desert are you. I own some businesses with my brother in L.H.C.,Az. and it gets up to 125 degrees there in the summer.That kind of heat just sucks the energy right out of you and I can’t imagine doing boards under those conditions. I’ve done some boat repair there but working with marine resin is different. Like the Jungle thing, just might change name to Jungle Fiberglass. Aloha from the Jungle, Kokua
I know what you mean about hot in Hono. When I first got to oahu in 70’ I > did some glassing for Rich Parr on Queen St., his factory (ha, ha ) was > above the shop and he had cheese cloth on all the windows to keep the dust > down for glossing. That room was at least 90+ degrees and miserable to > work in. I had to wrap a towel on my head to keep the sweat from dripping > while lamming. After 2 weeks I’d had enough of that and gave him the old > see ya.>>> I’ve heard tales of UV resin doing the yellow thing but never had it > happen to my work. Even my hot coats which I shoot normal with catalyst > then take outside to crisp have never turned yellow and I figured that if > it was going to happen that should do it.Aloha from the Jungle, Kokua Kokua You want hot? In 82 i think it was i went back to hawaii to run Craigs factory ( town and country ) in the Pearl City ind. park … I remember it being like 90 something outside inside was “HOT” fans going moving air but thats it. We worked at night alot… I have thought about using uv a few guys in oregon use it. I just don’t waste that much to save money when you pay that much more… I do like the idea of shape in the morning surf after lunch… That would be the only thing that would make it worth it. The yellowing i saw was on so so thick glass jobs… what uv resin do you use?? I just wish i had a heated sanding room… It’s getting cold outside now… the Bears won’t even come out it’s so cold. R&D time it’s sunday!! …Rob