The surftech Prince Kuhios are out production, but the similiar Munoz ultraglide’s are still available and if I’m correct both have tail rockers around 5 to help theese 11’ turn.
The Frye/Mabile swallowtail gliders apear to have more parralell outlines and less rocker. Has anyone surfed both types of boards in the 11’ range? I would like some feedback conserning differneces in down the line speed, the Tak/Munoz boards must be easier to cutback but the fishsimmons apear to be built for speed.
I have owned a 9’6 Josh Hall fishsimmons but want a glider in the 11+ range, it was a very good allround and fast board, but very stiff cutbacks compared to my 10’ Andreini MckVee.
And then we have the Jim Phillips/John Mellor widepoint back style gliders also, keeping the tail rocker low but easier to turn with that hip.
I don’t think you can really expect much in the way of ‘high performance’ with any of them. There are all kinds of trade-offs to consider but I think you have a pretty good understanding of what’s involved. The speedier designs generally tend to be stiffer and less forgiving.
I have a 12’ Munoz with 5" TR and although it paddles good and catches waves easily, it doesn’t really have a ‘sweet spot’ or accelerator pedal that were in some of the flatter more parallel boards I’ve had.
No experience here with the fish-simmons designs but I’ve heard that they are not very user friendly in the hands of inexperienced riders. I’ve heard that for some reason Frye/Hall, etc have a maxed out width that is never exceeded regardless of board length. That can make for some pretty straight/parallel outlines.
If you intend to use a glider longboard in bigger conditions, a likely trade-off would be a pulled in tail and maybe more pinched rails. The obvious down side would be lack luster small wave performance. As a rough idea, some of my small wave tail widths have been running around 17". For bigger waves more like around 13"-15" or so. “Bigger waves”= relatively speaking.
FWIW that Takayama Kuhio outline looks about perfect to my eyes. I think the max width is just over 24" on those. The Frye boards tend to max out at around 22 1/2" - 23"(?) I think my 12’ Munoz is about 26" wide. One way to increase the curve through the tail is to move the WP aft a bit. Again, there are trade-offs to consider.
There will always be that conundrum when designing really big longboards… getting ‘enough’ curve tends to really blow out the width. Keep them narrow enough to tuck under your arm and they end up pretty damn straight. Mine often end up being carried on top of my head.
There was a post awhile back by a guy who had recently received his new Frye Glider. He said the rocker was 2" but I find that hard to believe. The 3 that I’ve had were 10 footers and all had right about 4" in the nose - 3 1/2"-3 3/4" in the tail and I thought those were pretty flat.
We built an 11’3 a few years back with your help and outlines, but just made it too thick nand wide, becasue I was coming back from a shoulder surgery and was not sure if I would ever be able to paddle a surfboard again.
The Tak Kuhio outline just looks right but for point and shoot surfing the parralel flatter Fryesque gliders look hard to be beat for pure down the line speed.
This board would be for small waves only. Not after much “high performance” , angling early, drop and climb and cutting back without having to unweight 2/3 of the board like a tik-tak skate boad turn. Marc Andreinis 10’ is soo smooth in this aspect, trim and cut back from the same spot like butter.
Just got back from a two week surf trip to Portugal and had to surf a rental with next to no rocker for two weeks, but the darn thing would just fly once you got it wired. That low entry rocker trim was pretty addictive and so I started looking at shots of Phil edwards baby and Nat young Sam, and those boards did not have much nose rocker at all.
I’m 6’2 and 220 but with a soaked wintersuit I have no problem manhandling big boards with my size 12 feet. The Kuhio outline with less rocker might be a good fit for our cold unsalted waves
Sami - that Phil Edwards clip is awesome. And you gotta be really hardcore to paddle out at the spot you posted.
John - this came up on another thread - is it difficult or uncomfortable to straddle a board that wide, sitting in the lineup? I was thinking about going 24" wide on a board, but heard some say they had issues with their hips sitting on a board that wide. Just curious what your experience has been, as I’m still interested in using width to add some volume and rail curve to a midlength board.
Hi Huck - I’ve heard of that hyper extended hip issue as well but haven’t experienced it myself. The under arm carry thing seems to be more of an issue for most people. Those SUP handle inserts can help with that one.
And Sami - If you still have your Andreini, take a straight edge and check out the bottom contours in the rear third of that board. He definitely has some secret sauce that he puts in some of his longboard shapes - perhaps similar to the ‘loaded dome’ that McCoy has discussed on his website. I think Bruce Fowler has discussed this type of bottom design as well - a ‘ball bearing’ sort of thing.
With enough roll and tail kick even the logs of old could be made to turn, even with big ‘skeg’ type fins.
Yes I still have the Andreini and I will NEVER sell it, absolut magic board!
Funny you should mention Geoff’s loaded dome and Bruce Fowler, my “shortboards” are an 8’ V8 veebottom by Bruce and 8’2 single from mr McCoy. They share the same traits of Andreini 10’ of triminng and carving in the same spot despite being big boards.
Here is a shot poached from KP’s blogg of a similiar board to my 10’ , “rolled vee” in front of the fin goes to flat.
Wider tails and moving the widepoint further back, will surely acomplish some of the goals surfers want with gliders like early wave entry easy paddling, planing across flat spost but still be a whole lot easier to turn, the sacrifize apears be top end speed, but in the end a very good alernative to surf the same waves. But in paddling cross country from one break to antother the long parralell outlines are hard to beat.
Here is also a shot of a late 50’s Hobie, with a outline that would work great for the same conditions IMHO. Nat Young wrote in his biography that the best ever longboard he surfed was not Sam but a 1958 Hobie shaped by Joe Quigg!
Yes I have heard similiar comments to the munoz and a width 26 can give give you some hip issues, if You have a history of skating vert ramps and team sports as I have. But this guy still seems to have fun with his “dog”…
Hi Sami - The KP photo is nice but doesn’t tell the whole story. A long straight edge along the stringer would likely show a tight arc in the rocker curve in that same area.
I’m surprised that with your extensive knowledge of surfing history you don’t give Munoz more credit than that. He was one of the main shapers at Hobie for a long time and Patagonia still makes a board or two based on his designs.
Have you seen the movie “Chasing Dora?” - I was impressed not only with his shaping ability but his surfing ability - especially at his age.
After meeting and chatting with him in person once, I came away thinking he was a very nice guy as well. Even if I thought his shaping sucked (which I don’t) I would never disrespect him on a public forum where he doesn’t even have a chance to defend himself. Chances are, he wouldn’t give a rat’s ass anyway(?)
I’m surprised that with your extensive knowledge of surfing history you don’t give Munoz more credit than that. He was one of the main shapers at Hobie for a long time and Patagonia still makes a board or two based on his designs.
Have you seen the movie “Chasing Dora?” - I was impressed not only with his shaping ability but his surfing ability - especially at his age.
After meeting and chatting with him in person once, I came away thinking he was a very nice guy as well. Even if I thought his shaping sucked (which I don’t) I would never disrespect him on a public forum where he doesn’t even have a chance to defend himself. Chances are, he wouldn’t give a rat’s ass anyway(?)"
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John I will try and get a shot of my Andreini for you if you are interested, the outline actually resembles the MoreyPope Mctavish tracker IMHO.
I search sways for a shot of one of your “mojomatic” gliders, and hope it’s ok to repost it.
Here are a few shots of my 10’ Andreini, not a glider per see but I think widetailed boards in the 10-11’ range can also be used for early entry and connecting sections, but the deep vee needs to be surfed rail to rail in order to work properly.
Getting back to the original question regarding Frye Fishsimmons vs Takayama. Here are a few ideas re: Skip. I have two Frye eagles. One is from the 1980’s (11’2") and the other he made for me a few years ago (10’7"). I have never surfed a fish simmons but would love to shape one for myself. I have shaped longfish up to the 8’4" range but never bigger. I think the consesus is that the eagle is a bit more friendly than the fishsimmons.
Roll in the front third, double concave through the middle and tail with ample V at the end and I can turn both boards eagles quite easily. Slap an ultra small set of fins on these big boards and they almost become slippery. I have surfed my eagle in everything from calf high point waves to barreling overhead…(Don’t get in the barrel but I do race out in front of it. If I lose the board at this particular spot it would result in an 11’ board being trashed on the rocks). Get in super early, set the rail and holy crap it’s fast.
Anyways would love to hear more thoughts on the fishsimmons takayama comparison. Hers is a clip most of you may seen of Frye on one of his own Fishsimmons. Slow-mo rooster tail.
Originally I wanted a fishsimmons in the 11’ but the blanks available in portugal when Josh Hall on a shaping trip. The 9’5 he made me was magic apart from not catching rely fat swells or tiny waves as easily as I had hoped, but was a very very versatile design. Never took it out in any barrles but handled waist to overhead waves just fine.
According to Larry Mabile he himself prefers the big swallowtails over the eagles, but his boards differ somewhat from Skips.
Overall the Munoz surftechs seem to get pretty good reviews with the right fin set up.
From your comments, you clearly like the Andreini board. He makes a Glider model. If it was me, I would just contact him and tell him what you have, what you like about it and what you want to try in terms of a different design or changes. Or, is it just too expensive to ship a custom to Europe?
Shipping a 12-13ft board and paying import taxes would be astronomical, but if I was on your side of the atlantic I would contact Marc or Larmo.
I’m hoping to either find a used munoz/takayama or get someone closer to home to give it a go, but apart from balsa not that many shape 11+ boards in Europe.
Here is another shot of the Takayama version with a nice rocker profile. What are the bottom and rails like on the munoz?
I’m going to get a lot of flack for this but I got a great deal on a new munoz 11’ surftech and surfing the board for almost 6 months now and it has been a real eyeopener.
First off even though this is the longest board I’ve ever surfed it is one of the lightest. I had the chance to A/B the old surftech version with these new ones. The boards is so light that howling side/offshores can turn the board into a sail when carrying it to the beach.
Munoz design turns extremly well and next to no walking is needed during cutbacks. I weigh 250lbs and have size 12 feet, but smaller 190lbs freinds have also commented on how nimble they thought the board was.
Paddles extremely well, positioning and cathing waves is a pure joy. Rocker does not push water and can handle some size. Late no paddle sideways takeoffs are made easier due to the fuller softer and hence more forgiving rails. Lowish but still not super hard in the last third.
I’ve been running it with my favourite Paul Gross 9’ big red fin and I’ve found the sweetspot close to the back of the box.
Since the board is so light it accelerates quickly and catches waves with ease but I can still connect the dots and have crazy long rides with it. This comes at a prize and the board dings easier than the old surftechs but not as easy as a poly and I suspect there is not much of a stringer inside so huge hollow was would be fun but would probably brake the board in half. My Hall fishsimmons and Andreini where maybe a little faster i tiny wawes but in allround surf this board is amazing. Another thing to dial in is that when you hit chop in big surf the board can buck you off if you are not prepared due to the lightness so stay low like wayne lynch in evolution and fly past the soup back up into the pocket.
I have sinned in buying a popout but I could not be more happy with this board!
